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#11 Dec 21, 2016 8:20 am

Slice
Member

Re: Today is election day!

Americans voted Trump, because Hillary was ah horrible candidate.  Doh think it is fair to compare the two.  Keep in mind doh, Hillary got more votes than Trump, over two million more votes.

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#12 Dec 21, 2016 9:55 am

Vanni
Member

Re: Today is election day!

Slice, some people reported that some vote rigging in favour of Hillary was going on, and some even admitted having rigged it themselves. So what are these two million more votes really worth?

Some not-so-clean business is going on, and we do not know precisely a) to what extent and b) around whom exactly. But given the interests and stakes - some of which we humble mortals have no inkling of - and given also the ever increasing displays of desperation, we can imagine that the information above has serious chances of being true.

We need decency back into our Governments = people who appreciate that they are at the service of the Community of Life - not the contrary, as it has mostly been until now. The question is: who will bring it?

Last edited by Vanni (Dec 21, 2016 11:29 am)

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#13 Dec 21, 2016 12:41 pm

Slice
Member

Re: Today is election day!

I think the vote were not tampered with.  Hillary was just horrible.  How do you explain ah racist got almost 10 of the black vote and 33 1/2  percent of the Latino vote? America wanted change and they saw those changes in Trump.  I think they are wrong, but they choose him.

I am ready to give the Donald a chance, he won the election fair and square.

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#14 Dec 21, 2016 1:08 pm

Vanni
Member

Re: Today is election day!

Slice, are you sure that Hillary is not racist?

In their own claim? Appearances? ... you know, flattery? Brandishing a bottle of hot sauce ... an African American's comment was that it was embarrassing toward his Community. Then flattery toward the Latinos. How sincere, genuine and without ulterior motives is it? I wish it were, but something in me strongly feels like running away.

Why such an attitude? For the good of "her people"? Barely.

Show me sincerity and genuine caring! But such a person wouldn't try with violence, tricks, lies, cheats, to get a much coveted power. Coveted because for their own good, those of an elite. And they've been disposing of us for quite some time.

Well, the news seem to confirm with ever more instances that they are in the process of losing this power. Time, cause there's a plan which speaks of ... uhm ... noble naz...new world order principles attempted to be implemented. If this is true, then some of these attempts have failed. And maybe do we not realise our luck!

As for President Trump: let him show us of what he is made.

God knows what is at play that changes what has been lasting for aeons - one of the explanations circulating is among others about a total transformation of Humanity, supported by ... well let's call It Life. And Humans themselves.

About time smile

Up to us now to focus, cultivate and nurture what we value and want Life to be. And to be presented with people worthy of our trust.

Last edited by Vanni (Dec 21, 2016 1:13 pm)

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#15 Dec 21, 2016 3:30 pm

gripe
Member

Re: Today is election day!

If I have correctly interpreted you to be wary of Mrs. Clinton and that you are comfortable with the result of the elections, why am I so troubled at your apparent easy acceptance of Mr. Trump? Your conclusion that we need "to be presented with people worthy of our trust" makes me wonder what exactly is your true angle? The question arose to the extent that I am correct that, in your eyes, Mr. Trump is a good, better alternative to Mrs. Clinton. To read your statement that we, effectively, should give Mr. Trump time because you want him to "show us of what he is made" is laughable because one would think that after all these months, to the entire World, no one should be perplexed regarding "of what" Mr. Trump "is made".

If you have judged Mrs. Clinton by her past comments and actions, failings included, to the point that you were bold enough to direct Slice to the question "are you sure that Hillary is not racist?", what has taken you so long to reach a (comparable), solid, settled position "of what" Mr. Trump is made? Yet, to the world at large he has forcefully and arrogantly, without much hint of any statesmanlike class,  laid bare his personality and his (short) credentials. But you, Vanni, an apparent expert on Mrs. Clinton's negatives, can't yet bring yourself to a summary characterization of Mr. Trump.

I hope you find all that you are looking for in him. In the process, and in the end, be very happy with yourself since that is, in the long run, the key factor in our lives!

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#16 Dec 21, 2016 3:42 pm

Real Distwalker
Member

Re: Today is election day!

I think the largest part of Trump’s support is his willingness to attack and disparage progressive illiberalism.  For the record, I agree and very much like it myself. It deserves attack and disparagement.

Liberalism, in its classic sense, is a political philosophy founded on ideas of liberty and individual rights. Progressive illiberalism is the embrace of the all powerful state at the expense of liberty and individual rights. We have been seeing that everywhere.

Naturally it is good to see progressive illiberalism under fire from Trump.

My concern about Trump’s populism is that it is just a form of populist illiberalism. Out of the frying pan and into the fire as it were.

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#17 Dec 21, 2016 3:47 pm

gripe
Member

Re: Today is election day!

My hope is that the "fire" will not be too hot and not burn for too long over too wide an area, wantonly searing people, places and everything else in its path. Water may not be able to out that "fire"!

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#18 Dec 21, 2016 3:48 pm

Real Distwalker
Member

Re: Today is election day!

gripe wrote:

My hope is that the "fire" will not be too hot and not burn for too long over too wide an area, wantonly searing people, places and everything else in its path. Water may not be able to out that "fire"!

Amen.

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#19 Dec 21, 2016 5:40 pm

Vanni
Member

Re: Today is election day!

gripe wrote:

If I have correctly interpreted you to be wary of Mrs. Clinton and that you are comfortable with the result of the elections,

Really, this is how you understand what I am saying?

You are apparently having trouble understanding my point, and I am not sure I can help you with this.

gripe wrote:

why am I so troubled at your apparent easy acceptance of Mr. Trump?

Maybe because you've missed my point, and thus misunderstood what you see as my "easy acceptance of Mr Trump"

And, oh, by the way: the mildest I can put it, is that neither of Mrs Clinton or Mr Trump made me enthusiastic and would have made me want to vote.

gripe wrote:

Your conclusion that we need "to be presented with people worthy of our trust" makes me wonder what exactly is your true angle? The question arose to the extent that I am correct that, in your eyes, Mr. Trump is a good, better alternative to Mrs. Clinton. To read your statement that we, effectively, should give Mr. Trump time because you want him to "show us of what he is made" is laughable because one would think that after all these months, to the entire World, no one should be perplexed regarding "of what" Mr. Trump "is made".

If you have judged Mrs. Clinton by her past comments and actions, failings included, to the point that you were bold enough to direct Slice to the question "are you sure that Hillary is not racist?", what has taken you so long to reach a (comparable), solid, settled position "of what" Mr. Trump is made? Yet, to the world at large he has forcefully and arrogantly, without much hint of any statesmanlike class,  laid bare his personality and his (short) credentials. But you, Vanni, an apparent expert on Mrs. Clinton's negatives, can't yet bring yourself to a summary characterization of Mr. Trump.

I hope you find all that you are looking for in him. In the process, and in the end, be very happy with yourself since that is, in the long run, the key factor in our lives!

I'd say, my questioning Mr Trump and waiting to see of what he is made tells maybe a bit about my perplexity? Or not enough for you, even if I'd be shouting it out loud?

Dear Gripe, you are completely missing my point, which is:

More urgent than who is where at right now - this will be taken care of, I trust: an aeon long string of abuse of power has been severed. The predictable has changed to unpredictable.

Many appear to have missed this essential point, as much through Brexit as through the failure to elect Mrs Clinton at the presidency of the USA.

Now, if you, Gripe, have been feeling comfortable with the various people who have abused their power and who have succeeded each other at positions of power worldwide: I haven't ever. If you do not recognise their crimes, then ...

... there's really nothing I could say to reassure you about me smile

Last edited by Vanni (Dec 21, 2016 6:03 pm)

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#20 Dec 21, 2016 6:27 pm

Vanni
Member

Re: Today is election day!

gripe wrote:

Your conclusion that we need "to be presented with people worthy of our trust" makes me wonder what exactly is your true angle?

Only utterly few - if any - of the people at power, until now, have understood their position as one of responsibility, not exploitation.

Trust? It's been totally abused and raped.

Caring? for themselves, surely.

Not saying that there are none, but I presently do not know yet who is worthy of our trust among the leaders - whether political or other.

Most of us have gotten so used to a totally distorted world, that what is not acceptable is being accepted as normal.

There is a level of dignity, of respect for the Community of Life, of caring, which many of us have yet to discover. And be offered the leaders to represent and promote such quality.

But in order for such leaders to be voted, we need to first recognise that such a quality of relationship to each other is possible, and then to recognise it in those who could help promote them at national and international level.

This is about a new reality, Gripe. And it implies a massive awakening for many, many of us.

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