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#11 Nov 30, 2017 8:23 pm

Vanni
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Re: Me, back when I was dating...

Real Distwalker wrote:

The "angelic goal" is an impossible goal.  Humans aren't capable of being angels.  Every thought, word and deed is the result of self-interest in one form or another.

Oh I can so understand where you are coming from RD. Life down here is so utterly cruel and harsh, that we develop ways to handle it. Sadly, we respond with cruelty to cruelty: it cannot work: in the process, we are cultivating exactly what we hate, and we can be assured that it will come back to hurt us again.

So we may be starting with self-interest, but, let's speak Jesus (or Buddha): was Jesus acting out of self-interest? Not in my understanding. A human having reached that level of purity of heart and intention, whether Jesus or Buddha or many others who are less known, came as an inspiration to all humans, creating a momentum at a level of which we are not conscious, but which gently touches our heart.

And so, we can become pure in heart and soul in our turn. Genuinely. Or why then religion? Why aspiring for something better if it's utopian & hopeless? For a hypothetical future divine reward, f.ex. it in form of paradise? It's again all about self interest, I'm afraid, so of no interest for the changes within which we are in the process.

How can I tell you? I KNOW of levels of Life where people are living pure of heart, according to principles we do not even dare - yes not even have the courage - to figure out here.

But I think that we are reaching such a point now, where we have to consider a different way of interacting with all. At least, some of us came with this awareness and are, with their best will, on that path. And are sometimes being taken for naive clowns smile

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#12 Nov 30, 2017 8:32 pm

Real Distwalker
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Re: Me, back when I was dating...

Vanni wrote:

was Jesus acting out of self-interest? Not in my understanding.

You are correct.  He most certainly was not.  But we are fallen and for "all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God".

Nothing straight shall ever be built from the crooked timber of humanity.

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#13 Nov 30, 2017 8:44 pm

Expat
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Re: Me, back when I was dating...

Real Distwalker wrote:
Vanni wrote:

was Jesus acting out of self-interest? Not in my understanding.

You are correct.  He most certainly was not.  But we are fallen and for "all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God".

Nothing straight shall ever be built from the crooked timber of humanity.

Well I'm not going to agree with you on either statement, but then I wouldn't would I. Except the sinning bit. I have done a fair bit of that.

Jesus spent much of his adult life that we know of fulfilling the prophesies he learned about at the knees of the priests when He was a child. If that wasn't acting out of self interest I don't know what is. He was just an old time David Icke without the media.

Last edited by Expat (Nov 30, 2017 8:45 pm)

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#14 Nov 30, 2017 8:58 pm

Real Distwalker
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Re: Me, back when I was dating...

You know, even when I was a atheistic heathen like you, I found the message of Christ to be worth hearing.   Matthew 25...

For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me,  I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.’  Then the righteous will answer him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink?  And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you?  And when did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’  And the King will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’

There is nothing there worthy of mockery, is there?

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#15 Dec 01, 2017 6:58 am

Vanni
Active

Re: Me, back when I was dating...

Real Distwalker wrote:
Vanni wrote:

was Jesus acting out of self-interest? Not in my understanding.

You are correct.  He most certainly was not.  But we are fallen and for "all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God".

Nothing straight shall ever be built from the crooked timber of humanity.

RD, some of the Bible is not ... gospel. It was either erroneously translated, or translated by people who were ignorant ... or, not least, manipulated by self-serving people.

Sinned? Religion tells us that we are even born as sinners. What a nasty "present"! This, in my understanding, is one of those bits written in order to keep us enslaved straight from our first breath in this world.

As far as I know, there is this godly core within us, and we can start by perceiving it, and then live by it. "Sin" (remains to determine what exactly is meant by it - over the ages it has quite morphed smile ) then, would not be much part any more of our life.

Religion is thriving on this idea of sin - it amalgamates human fallibility with evil. Not that we are impeccable, but from failure to evil, there is still some way. And religion exploits it. Cultivates it. And needs it in order to keep us docile. So, the initial words written about it, have not absolutely been so in a good intention, nor, surely, as a reflection of the truth:

our nature is of this divine spark animating us, and from which all life ensues. We can choose to focus on that Godspark, and make it the reality of our life.

There is an interaction with life, pure of heart. Not only is it at our disposition, but it is also something we are longing for with so much passion, and above all, this is possibly our only path now. We have explored the rest to exhaustion.

If I am allowing myself to express such things, it is because I am in such a process, this is a personal experience. And such a process requires uncompromising sincerity - and love at the same time, or I would throw myself in the next trashcan so many times tongue - God knows the temptation. I am stumbling so often - and there is still so much for me to bring forth, but I understand that this is our true nature regardless. I just know ... so regardless of judgment about me, I express what I know by experience.

I am convinced that we are not going to collapse nor self-destroy, which may be the logical path of sin, should this be our main component. This life is just temporary, for a purpose, and once it is fulfilled, we reveal ourselves further in our true nature, which is of divine origin.

In order for our uplifting, for us to reveal to ourselves as the higher reality humans we have always been and always will be, the condition is without compromise: a total purity of heart. And we are going to get all the help needed in order for us to do this U turn in our life. At a certain point, it will become obvious even to the skeptics among us.

I know that we are going to discover and reveal ourselves much differently, with relief, from all we have believed ourselves restrictively to be until now.

Last edited by Vanni (Dec 01, 2017 7:27 am)

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#16 Dec 01, 2017 7:24 am

Real Distwalker
Active

Re: Me, back when I was dating...

Well, Vanni, the Christian principle that we are all born corrupt, sinful and with a natural instinct to reject God matches my own non-religious observations of humanity.   

We have the means to be better, however, and that is through God's grace.  About 99% of my prayers are for faith and to know God so that I can be a better person.  I can't do it on my own. Nobody can.  That's the way I see it.

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#17 Dec 01, 2017 7:38 am

Vanni
Active

Re: Me, back when I was dating...

Yes RD, I understand. But amalgamating fallibility with downright evil is not the greatest service we can do to honesty smile

This life is, in my understanding, a space created (with God's will, if you want) for us to explore how far we can drift from the Divine. So, yes, the experiences are equally extreme. But at a certain point, there is the inevitable return to the Source. Which may be our time now.

And regardless of our drifting away: this divine Core is within each of us, within each manifestation of life - and even within the most evil among us. It will take accordingly many experiences and time to make the full circle, but this is the only purpose of this level of life, in my understanding.

So, what some understand and condemn as sin, I understand it as exploration and experience bringing us inexorably back to Source. Not that I like the ugly part of it! But: it is not our nature. It is a condition into which some of us, who have been called courageous, have chosen, in agreement with the Divine, to explore. The return to Source, as I said, is implicit and inevitable.

No, we are not meant to do it on our own, but we may distinguish between an external, human projected God figure, and the Godspark within each of us and permeating the whole Universe in its infinity. Surrender is the idea to me. God's Grace is a combination from within and from outside. Because there could be as much God's Grace: we are the ones to reach out for it, having reached that stage of our exploration and experience. And I am coming back to the idea that it seems that humanity has reached a mass event of such a kind.

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#18 Dec 01, 2017 8:00 pm

Expat
Active

Re: Me, back when I was dating...

Real Distwalker wrote:

You know, even when I was a atheistic heathen like you, I found the message of Christ to be worth hearing.   Matthew 25...

For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me,  I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.’  Then the righteous will answer him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink?  And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you?  And when did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’  And the King will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’

There is nothing there worthy of mockery, is there?

Whats any of that to do with whether he was bogus with a following?

One for the record, Morgan Freeman has started a story of God program... I started to watch it, but like so many of it's ilk I can see me being bored bay the end of episode 2. Like many of that kind of program, instead of really giving answers they just ask a lot of quetions for you to think about, and then end with "We shall see".

I don't stop looking, but I have yet to come even marginally close to someone convincing me of anything, and once you say "In the Bible it says"... err well crash bang wallop... the shutters go down at the speed of light. The Bible is a Man made construct, altered, and manipulated by other men.

I will never deny it hold some very good life stories that we can all learn from. It teaches us how to be good people. It is a text book on good living. But Word of God..........Yeah right.

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#19 Dec 01, 2017 9:39 pm

Real Distwalker
Active

Re: Me, back when I was dating...

It's hard to kick against the pricks.

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#20 Dec 02, 2017 7:14 am

Calypso
Active

Re: Me, back when I was dating...

Forget about the words and the politics of the picture. Look at the male figure and how he tries to impress the female with sumptuous surroundings. Do you men think this way anymore.? Nowadays it's only about getting the !@#$ into the %^&&*!!

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