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#31 Dec 04, 2017 4:42 pm

Expat
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Re: Me, back when I was dating...

Real Distwalker wrote:

People seem to be inclined to shouting "oh my God!" during sex; at least that the common cliché.  I wondered, therefore, if the likes of you dispense with God and cry out on the basis of your deeply held atheistic faith it its stead.

I am not so sure that shouting oh my God is universal. As an almost? one gal guy, it's a bit of a leap to speak for the rest of Christendom.

What did YOU do when you used reason. Or maybe you were too young to partake of the adult pleasures of life before you found faith.

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#32 Dec 04, 2017 5:09 pm

Real Distwalker
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Re: Me, back when I was dating...

And yet here we are, a score of centuries and billions of people later and the words still move millions. 

Sixty or seventy years from now no one will even remember you ever existed.

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#33 Dec 04, 2017 9:16 pm

Expat
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Re: Me, back when I was dating...

Real Distwalker wrote:

And yet here we are, a score of centuries and billions of people later and the words still move millions. 

Sixty or seventy years from now no one will even remember you ever existed.

Me little Granny is going on past that, and she will undoubtedly be telling her progeny how wonderful her Gramps was, so don't sell me short, I shall be forgotten after a Century at the earliest.

The only reason we still have mob hysteria is because back at the beginning there were enough unsophisticated people to punt the word around, and the needy and brainwashed.... and don't tell me there isn't brainwashing.... follow like the sheep they are.

I am sure even you would agree, if JC landed on Earth today he would very quickly find himself in a mental institution. Or any consequence you can imagine beyond my simple perspective. He sure as hell would not be revered by the masses. He was of his time, and like an old comedy skit it just doesn't resonate a few years down the road when the pace of life and our experiences have moved us on. He would face a really tough audience nowadays.

In fact being realistic he wasn't even of his time considering the mob preferred to put him to death rather than, Barabbas. So really it's mostly down to his publicity consultancy post mortem.

Last edited by Expat (Dec 04, 2017 9:19 pm)

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#34 Dec 05, 2017 10:33 am

Real Distwalker
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Re: Me, back when I was dating...

Expat wrote:

and don't tell me there isn't brainwashing.... follow like the sheep they are.

Atheists tell themselves that. I know I did.  They pretty much have to. They have to rationalize the faith of others.  For example, if you accept that Christians like me, fully rational, logical, educated, globally traveled and schooled in science and history can still be a believer, it might plant a seed of doubt in your own faith.

I get it.  You fancy yourself enlightened.  You feel that you have discovered TRUTH and there is nothing left to learn on the subject.  The discussion is closed, there is nothing more to debate, you have closed your mind.  You have faith.

But what to do about RD?  I am not a wild eyed bible beater.  I don't speak in tongues or take up serpents. I don't deny science and, in fact, understand and accept it.  I am a student of history and am aware of every single argument in favor of atheism.

In fact, if I wanted to, I could argue the atheist position far more convincingly than you are able.  I get all of the arguments.  I get the subtleties of non-belief.  I lived it.

Yet here I am.  A believer who has immersed himself in atheism but found it stupid and wanting.

What does an old, cranky faithful atheist do?  Well, he just declares those who don't share his faith in nothingness "brainwashed".

In that way, he can continue to imagine that he alone has a handle lock on greater reality and any who don't agree with his religion of nothing is simple weak minded.

Yeah.  I get it.

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#35 Dec 05, 2017 11:46 am

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Re: Me, back when I was dating...

Real Distwalker wrote:
Expat wrote:

and don't tell me there isn't brainwashing.... follow like the sheep they are.

Atheists tell themselves that. I know I did.  They pretty much have to. They have to rationalize the faith of others.  For example, if you accept that Christians like me, fully rational, logical, educated, globally traveled and schooled in science and history can still be a believer, it might plant a seed of doubt in your own faith.

I get it.  You fancy yourself enlightened.  You feel that you have discovered TRUTH and there is nothing left to learn on the subject.  The discussion is closed, there is nothing more to debate, you have closed your mind.  You have faith.

But what to do about RD?  I am not a wild eyed bible beater.  I don't speak in tongues or take up serpents. I don't deny science and, in fact, understand and accept it.  I am a student of history and am aware of every single argument in favor of atheism.

In fact, if I wanted to, I could argue the atheist position far more convincingly than you are able.  I get all of the arguments.  I get the subtleties of non-belief.  I lived it.

Yet here I am.  A believer who has immersed himself in atheism but found it stupid and wanting.

What does an old, cranky faithful atheist do?  Well, he just declares those who don't share his faith in nothingness "brainwashed".

In that way, he can continue to imagine that he alone has a handle lock on greater reality and any who don't agree with his religion of nothing is simple weak minded.

Yeah.  I get it.


>>Yeah.  I get it<<

No you don't. You think being such an educated well traveled well read individual who has an IQ way above everybody else you are without question THE authority on everything. And others are almost pitiful in their ignorance. This pomposity seems to come out regularly when who ever you are up against at the time doesn't simply lay down under your steam roller.


The piece " and don't tell me there isn't brainwashing" was a reinforce of the fact there is. It was not snide, it was literal.
The tail end was the completion of the sentence it interrupted.  So it should have read :-

and the needy and brainwashed follow like the sheep they are.

Both parts of that statement are absolutely correct. You may not like it but it is so.... I'll amend that, as it is a vast generalisation, and I do not wish to insinuate that everyone who has a faith is a sheep. But there are large numbers of the faithful who are.

I have seen the brainwashing happening up close and personal. You have been lucky enough to have lived in surroundings that enabled you to be an Atheist. You may have converted, and that is fine. We all have experiences which can cause us to make choices one way or another. But you should not insist we all believe what you believe. I am happy for people to believe, but I just do not think people should just have a comfort blanket without thinking about how that blanket was made.

What happens for the majority in countries with a heavy religious bias is as happens here, and I would guess Ireland as another prime candidate. Children are enthusiastically coached in the doctrine. Long before they have any ability to reason. They then take the absolute BS that is quoted at them as Gospel, and literally word for word true and literal. This sets that information like concrete, so that in adult life they have lost the ability to question.

You know as well as I do vast swathes of the Bible are allegorical, just like your fox and rabbit. These poor buggers have no clue, but accept what they are told without question. They have been made sheep.

So they ARE brainwashed without any opportunity to pick and chose as everyone around them is on a par. As a result the Church has its followers, who are controlled by the priests in ways they could never get away with in a more open society.

I was lucky enough to be a convert to Catholicism, and enjoyed the beauty of the Latin Mass. I was an Altar boy and served every Wednesday morning before going to school, and on Sundays too. But my mind was not closed. Any more than it is now. I seek information to make me change my mind, but every year takes me further away, Not closer.

Had the Vatican2 not dumbed down the Mass, and made it in the local language, and were the Mass in this country not a bloody painful event I might have liked to go once in a blue moon almost as a meditating process. But they HAVE dumbed it down, and bongo banging with screeching out of tune voices is definitely not getting me in the pews.

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#36 Dec 05, 2017 5:31 pm

Vanni
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Re: Me, back when I was dating...

So, Gentlemen, how about people who actually experience states of awareness and realities, which those who have not yet accessed them, downgrade to wishful thinking? Eh?

Sooner or later, everyone reaches realities which they call illusion until they enter the specific range of awareness. And of which those who know by experience cannot give the proof - and should not attempt giving it, anyway - to anyone who simply does not know yet.

Ignorance of a reality does not mean that this reality does not exist.

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#37 Dec 05, 2017 6:16 pm

Real Distwalker
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Re: Me, back when I was dating...

Vanni, I know God exists and I know that God is, above all else, love.

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#38 Dec 05, 2017 8:16 pm

houston
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Re: Me, back when I was dating...

https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://m.

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#39 Dec 05, 2017 8:36 pm

houston
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Re: Me, back when I was dating...

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#40 Dec 07, 2017 8:27 pm

Vanni
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Re: Me, back when I was dating...

Real Distwalker wrote:

Vanni, I know God exists and I know that God is, above all else, love.

Yes, it's about the experience RD, or should I say resonance? And indeed, it cannot be proved, like a colour cannot be described in terms of black and white. It does not mean that an atheist is not resonating with love, nor that a religious person is automatically resonating with it. So, conflicts are more about words than the essential: God-Love-Life. Whoever is inclined toward kindness, treating others well, respecting life, is already on the path.

For the orthodox scientists & religious people, I shouldn't say that, but I have a fascination about combining spirituality and quantum physics smile both are describing the same, but in different words. Though, I understand better words of love than words about quantum physics, but the subject in itself is fascinating.

Last edited by Vanni (Dec 07, 2017 8:30 pm)

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