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#2 Dec 09, 2017 6:34 pm

Expat
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Re: Melting away

l, now I am going to put words into RD's mouth, and he can either chastize me for being so impertenent, or simply agree or disagree with what I am going to write.


In RD mode... a mode which recognises Cyclical Global warming, but attributes next to none of it to mans impact.... He woud probably say the Polar bear is simply a brown bear (which it was) which adapted as by incremental stages the White coat gene proved to be better at hunting in the Arctic Snow, hence they became a sub-species which we now tend to think of as a breed on their own.

As such, they mutated and thrived when the ice came, and now it's going they have to fade away and let the brown bears resume their range of travel as they did before. Extinction for the Polar Bear. But all part of the natural cycle.

Getting into Expat mode, I say this is just another canary warning us that our excesses ARE having an effect and as per 97% of the climatologists consider WE are accelerating things, considering the cost has been increased Tropical strength storms, Multiple Forest fires, Floods, runaway Tornados.... and this is just in the USA, I would think twice about utilising fossil fuels to get and use energy. Never mind the accelerated melt off of Greenland, and Sundry Glaciers that are receding. All of which is going to make many Capital and large cities around the World vulnerable, as rivers and bays tend to be where settlements occurred.

What we need is a few more volcano's kicking off, as opposite to what was believed before, the final effect due to some of the chemicals released into the atmosphere is net cooling, not warming. So Man's impact BAD, natures impact... GOOD.

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#3 Dec 09, 2017 7:17 pm

houston
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Re: Melting away

The Polar bear is a unique creature but extremely dangerous. Being carnivorous it is the only bear that will stock a human for supper.
The long neck was adapted perfectly to allow them a look into those Seal holes.

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#4 Dec 09, 2017 10:04 pm

Expat
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Re: Melting away

houston wrote:

The Polar bear is a unique creature but extremely dangerous. Being carnivorous it is the only bear that will stock a human for supper.
The long neck was adapted perfectly to allow them a look into those Seal holes.

Being that it lives in a primely Barren wasteland it only really has no choice to be carnivorous, so stalking meat on 2 legs is not surprising. If you had to wait 3 months for a burger you might try something out of the norm too, if it wandered past your door.

The Brown and Black bears can afford to be omnivorous, The Polar not so much.

https://www.globalanimal.org/2011/07/11 … olar-bear/

The link indicates the Modern Polar originates from Britain 100,000 years ago... from a Brown Bear, So Ba Sucks...

I do recall quite recently a documentary stating firmly the change from Brown to White and its general form were adaptations.

Last edited by Expat (Dec 09, 2017 10:10 pm)

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#5 Dec 11, 2017 10:01 am

Real Distwalker
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Re: Melting away

Polar bears separated from brown bears as separate species no more than 600,000 years a ago.   

During that period, there have been five periods of glacial advance and with periods of warming in between.   We are in a warming period now.    Prior to the last glacial maximum. when Canada, Scandinavia, Britain and the Northern US was under ice, there was also a warm period as was the case between each of about 75 glacial maximums during the Pleistocene ice age.

The preceding interglacial warm period occurred during the Late Pleistocene Eemian Stage, about 120,000 years ago.  During the Eemian Stage sea level was about 8 meters higher than today and the water temperature of the North Sea was about 2 °C higher than at present.

And yet the bears survived.

I am certain that humans are having an impact but it is well within the range of normal.


----------------------------
BTW: There seems to be some debate about species origin of polar bears.

https://www.livescience.com/19785-ancie … bears.html

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#6 Dec 11, 2017 7:04 pm

Expat
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Re: Melting away

The North Sea is a pretty small body of water which runs about 100ft deep I think, so a 2 degree rise in that body of water might be locally a problem, but doesn't speak for the oceans. The Cod would have just buggered off to somewhere they wouldn't get a tan.

It would seem the latest variant of Polar bear are intellectually disadvantaged compared to their forebears as they seem to be struggling with the lack of ice already.

The problem with stoicism in the face of majority agreement that Man is having an effect, and could do something about it at small cost to himself, is that it wouldn't be the ostrich that pay the price more than a couple of strong hurricanes, it will be their great grandchildren that will have to cope with the effects of their inaction.

While the left wing luvvies can come up with some real stupidity, like charging everyone a few pence per plastic bag in the UK to cut down on the use of plastic bags, when in Grenada the bags are bio degradable..Why can't they get bio degradable bags in the UK.... duh...

But being more cautious with our atmosphere doesn't have to cost the Earth... pun intended.

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#7 Dec 11, 2017 7:46 pm

houston
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Re: Melting away

The amount of pollution pumped into the sky by industry and autombiles idling in traffic these days is mind boggling. No doubt they have a huge effect on the atmosphere and surely contribute to climate change more than ever before. The global population has grown and therfore the emissions. Doesn't require a lot of science to figure that out.
Halocarbon emissions were reduced several years and viola, the holes in the ozone layer are recovering. Why can't the population agree on the damage of carbon emissions?

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#8 Dec 11, 2017 9:57 pm

Real Distwalker
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Re: Melting away

There is plenty of evidence beyond the temperature of the North Sea that the last intetglacial period was warmer than this one. It isn't even controversial.

If a previous interglacial period was warmer than this one, without any possible affect of mankind, there is no reason to believe that this warm period is outside the range of what should be considered normal.

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#9 Dec 12, 2017 6:19 am

Expat
Active

Re: Melting away

Until it isn't.

But we won't know, having long since gone for the long sleep.

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#10 Dec 12, 2017 10:37 am

Real Distwalker
Active

Re: Melting away

The reality is that carbon controls humanity as much or more than humanity controls carbon.  If we define a domesticated plant or animal as one that can no longer live or breed in the wild and depends on humanity to survive, then we have been domesticated by carbon.

As it stands now, humanity would collapse into a mass of corpses without the miracle that carbon based fuel has given us.  There is just no way the planet can support over 7 billion without that energy.  Maybe someday, but not now and not for the foreseeable future.

Lets just hope and pray that the effect of all this carbon is either neutral or positive because it just isn't going away.  Not without famine, pestilence, suffering and mass death.

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