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#21 Dec 30, 2017 6:21 pm

Real Distwalker
Active

Re: Gender-Neutral God?: Swedish Churches' Controversial Decision

Furthermore, you are a fucking asshole.  A fucking asshole is someone who, in a previously civil discussion with someone, tells her that her deeply held belief in metaphysical beauty, love and objective justice is really sadistic, uncaring and perverted.  Well, let me return the insult you tossed out: Bite me motherfucker.

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#22 Dec 30, 2017 7:35 pm

Dancer
Active

Re: Gender-Neutral God?: Swedish Churches' Controversial Decision

Well , that will not do .


1st ... What's with the  one  eye guy on your posts .
2nd .... Mutta fuc .. er is not how we 'roll' in the Caribbean. ( I saw you using that , using it properly ? )
3rd .....  You must resign from teaching Confirmation classes.... Not ready yet . lol.

EXPAT .... with his rant .  " raving and ranting " cussing god . lol .
............so what did you see ? 
Protecting God ? Lol.  He asked you to do that ?

Cussing and carrying on  in the name of  MOORES"S god. lmao.
.......................


Foolish me ?????  I thought that you as a man that has recently saw/found the light ,  would take  the opening  that Expat provided.... to bring him into some light ....   But no , Cussing  Expat , for  the Lord.

SAD..... lmao.

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#23 Dec 30, 2017 7:53 pm

Expat
Active

Re: Gender-Neutral God?: Swedish Churches' Controversial Decision

Oops there went the rules of engagement.... I guess you forgot where you placed them on the site.

Never understood why MoFo was supposed to be an insult, I have done many mothers, and I am neither proud or ashamed of it. They mostly weren't married at the time, say what, they went away happy.

And, to continue, you, naturally think you are very superior.

You, despite my apparent pre pubescent observations. as the scientific vacuum for all things knowable cannot and have not had the slightest ability to rationalise arguments against them. You are too cowardly to actually take it on, but rather stoop to petulant name calling, as has often been your stance in debates you cannot actually win. Try to be honest. Everybody's Faith is specific to them. You most definitely cannot impose what ever yours is onto me, any more than I remove yours... assuming you have confidence in it. Your faith doesn't threaten me, why does mine as you tell me my lack of belief is, seem to threaten you I wonder.

Does the World HAVE to have a sugar coating on it? Or can we be big boys and girls and see what is really out there. We can agree or disagree as to whether there is a reason for why this place we call Earth could be by so many called a living hell. But for many it is. Just as thankfully, for many their trials and tribulations are small, and they would call Earth heaven, or at a pinch purgatory.

You have not a single explanation for why innocents are bombed. burned, brutalised otherwise you would have furnished me with a response. To simply say as apologists often seem to do.... God gave man freedom of choice is banal nonescense.

I have my belief, which you seem to have no ability to change, and you have yours which seem immutable. The difference perhaps is that I WAS religious, and have lost it. While if I understand your history, you gained it. Converts have the most to lose by being wrong, so are often the most zealous followers. Not able to reassess. For myself, my mind remains open. Should there be the slightest hint of something a person such as I who will readily agree is not an expert in the field, I shall be ready to observe, take guidance, or listen. Just don't start the sentence with "In the bible it says".

You would happily sit on the sidelines letting all and sundry quote absolute rubbish, and that would be OK because they are on the same team as you. What you cannot do I am afraid, is expect everybody else to suck it up without legitimate challenges. Otherwise you would be expecting the same restriction on discussion that Trump and Putin favour. Democracy is better served by open discussion.

I trust you now feel suitably ashamed of your outburst, and as it hasn't been added to by a 3rd party consider removing it, as whilst there have been many outburst, and I will concede to having forgotten myself once or twice I think that was the most concentrates spewing of bile that has spilled onto this forum in all the years it has been running. Shame on you. Please remember we do not know the ages and sensibilities of the reader.

So please say 3 Hail Mary's, Our Lord's prayer and recite the Catechism as recompense your your brutish monologue.

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#24 Dec 30, 2017 8:59 pm

Vanni
Active

Re: Gender-Neutral God?: Swedish Churches' Controversial Decision

Expat, you see sugar coating, where I see the challenge of my life.

The only response I have found to the infinite horror and cruelty of life I am seeing moment after moment is, after I've been to hell and back, and I'm back by miracle - the only response I could find is universal love.

It does not make me for one moment deny any of the suffering going on. No. I am crying maybe each day to think of how much pain how many living beings are going through. I am spending regular moments a day to send comfort to all wounded hearts, souls and bodies who I do not know personally. And I acknowledge that this suffering may not be in vain.

And by living beings I mean not just humans - so you can make jokes about my being a vegetarian not primarily out of dietary concerns, but because even that little gesture of - hopefully - kindness, even a drop in the ocean could one day make a difference, as more drops are joining: may we develop the motivation to interact with life in such a way that we do not generate any cruelty, any violence, any lovelessness any more. Vast project ... there's a long way to go for me. But then, we'll have fulfilled the purpose of this life. Purpose of which the terrible suffering and cruelty which you are talking about are part.

It's not imposed by a vicious idolised God. Nor is it happening because "he" - or "she" - or "it" - does not care. It's a bit more profound and complex than that.

I can understand your rage and despair. I am sharing it, in my still incomplete understanding of life.

Yet, the only answer I've found to that, after having practically lost reason - and maybe thanks to having reached this extreme, so may I be grateful for the pain I've been through, and  grateful to those who played their role in it? - the only answer I've found to that is divine or universal love. One that I am expected to convey, however humble, clumsy and fallible I may be.

Last edited by Vanni (Dec 30, 2017 9:17 pm)

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#25 Dec 30, 2017 9:28 pm

Expat
Active

Re: Gender-Neutral God?: Swedish Churches' Controversial Decision

What I take from what you wrote is that you have plumbed the depths through actions of others if I recall and your own as a by product, and having bottomed out you have either by your own inner strength, or perhaps with your own strength assisted by others come to a better plateau. This is both commendable and gratifying to hear.

I have observed over the years your closeness with a more mystic perspective. One, like straight Christianity I have also partaken of. And, like Christianity I have laid it aside. I have had a few experiences which I can't quite explain. I have to wonder whether knowledge and sensations were jointly experienced, or were generated by a subconscious group desire to share. We can be quite suggestible creatures when we crave enlightenment. I can only say I had a better grip on my sanity when I put it aside.

I cannot, and would not dream of ... even if I knew all the specifics try to chisel away at your foundation.

If anyone's belief is so weak they cannot internally, or even externally brush my earthy direct analysis off, then I think the answer has to be their belief was not really that strong. Not that I am the devil incarnate.

What I expressed... I thought.... was a hard core challenge to the commonly held belief that the being called God is not what many seemingly blind followers would have us believe. A benevolent loving being. The proof it is not is all around us.

You acknowledge this and wish that mankind comes to a better place so we can all be happy.... right?

I simply yet again do not have faith... this time that mankind will ever jointly reach such high levels in time so as to avoid a nuclear holocaust which will rid this planet of such a tiresome species. I would wish your optimism were justified, like in so many things, I would welcome being proved wrong.

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#26 Dec 31, 2017 6:56 am

Calypso
Active

Re: Gender-Neutral God?: Swedish Churches' Controversial Decision

Vanni wrote:

Calypso, has God written the Bible? Has God created religion? Has God dictated the prayers you are quoting? I could go on with the list.

Yet, some have decreed all kinds of things, which did not come from the Source of All. It may suit some humans.

My perception is not one of any gender over the other for God-Love-Life, but if at all, one of a harmony of polarities. The attempt to put a preference in polarity is, in my opinion, a typically human attempt. One which speaks of competition. Of domination. All concepts which have nothing to do with the Divine, and all to do with the human.

I am aware that there is a state before polarity. And, equally to the perfect harmony of both polarities, to me this is implicit when evoking God.

We can be so, so ignorant, and so, so gullible.

There is no gullibility or ignorance in my comment. God is a "spirit" is what the Bible clearly tells us. A spirit is neither masculine or feminine.  That same book refers to our maker as our "father."
Why is it give our maker a masculine identity? It's because throughout history males have always been our protector and provider. There's nothing the matter with that. Males have often taken forceful roles leading nations, etc. Is there anything the matter with that? God did not make man do dominate females he did it of his free will. We were all made with free will. It is our choice as to how we use the freedom and power given to us. As you can see, we cannot lead our step. We can be very destructive in our choices: genocides, wars, strives, etc. .

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#27 Dec 31, 2017 7:48 am

Vanni
Active

Re: Gender-Neutral God?: Swedish Churches' Controversial Decision

Calypso, I thought of general gullibility. I also keep thinking that there is something less noble at works in what I consider as human-made image of a male god, than the interesting explanations you are giving.

But then ... male without female = sterility. So where is really the force? In symbiosis, or in struggles of extremes?

Do we reduce force to physical strength? How about emotional strength, which women, in their turn, are skilled at? More and more of the apparently weird tendencies and apparent confusion of genders may point out toward a balancing of male-female energies, into a symbiosis of them within each of us. Not that we are going to lose our respective gender, but it will be less extreme, not in competition, more balanced, more harmonious, and thus also reflected in our interaction with each other and Life allover.

Also, what if this "forceful" role is not desirable?

Could it be that we are here, precisely, to develop to be lead in our own steps in a union by choice with the Source, our Inner Guidance, which we call God? There is a subtle difference between domination and working together. Between domination and surrender. I prefer the two latter ones. Because they ensue from a different spirit.

In my understanding and experience, we have free will in order for us to find out by ourselves the Source and Guidance for each of our actions, and practice to always involve it in any of our actions. And ... though fallible we are: yes we can smile

Contrarily to either depreciating self-belief, or additionally instilled condemning concepts by either religion or science: we are not doomed to be half-animal-like blind creatures of destruction: we have as our core the Spark of Love and Life - or Godspark - which we are here to make consciously and make deliberately the leader of all we do - the purpose, precisely, of Earthly life. Godspark which, also, is the only way we can even exist as an entity. Without it, there is no manifested creation, no manifested creature, no manifested universe. This, too, science has yet to discover.

There is something like ascension of souls, where people have mastered their creative power, where they have recognised the Source and surrendered to Love-Light-God, and are using it only for the good of all concerned, only lead by universal, divine love and in accordance with It. By inclination. By choice.

I say it again here: despite discouraging appearances, our humanity appears to have reached this point - at least, some say that there is a divine timing for the "Event" - and for many of us it is going to be surprisingly upwards. Because we have built up toward this moment, which, some sources say, was decreed at the start of our exploration of forgetting up to denial of the Divine. It was not as much an unfortunate error and accident, as it was a courageous exploration. More than we think of us have gone full circle and are ready for a new cycle of something few of us can imagine of beauty.

Last edited by Vanni (Dec 31, 2017 9:15 am)

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#28 Dec 31, 2017 8:14 am

Vanni
Active

Re: Gender-Neutral God?: Swedish Churches' Controversial Decision

Expat, I am placing my understanding in a context I find difficult to talk about other than with the people who have the understanding and experience of such a context.

So it's a not-so-easy exercise to say certain things, cut off from the context which may give them much better sense.

But I feel I have to mention something here, which, I can imagine, is not going to be easy to consider:

How can I, for example, say here that, as far as I ended up understanding for my own life, when I was in a higher state of awareness, before I came into this physical world and lost this dimension of my awareness, I had chosen the exact conditions of living, experiences, circumstances and people involved in my own life?

Can you imagine my instant reaction in my state of distress, when I was so close to dying, in so much pain that I actually was wishing for death? It was instant self-hate: how could I have ever chosen to undergo THAT? I must have hated myself! Yes?

So could this pre-life choice be for the others too? Could then this outrageous life be one of purpose rather than a sinister farce?

Little by little, in a process which was - and still is - dizzying, utterly demanding, and all but a piece of cake, yet very rewarding, I saw what others see as "ill fate" or "accident", as an actual meeting with Life, with ourSelves, meeting with each other, meant to be. Chosen despite appearances. Not just random horror, but a situation with a noble purpose.

Which should not make us go into a passive "oh those living such tragic experience have chosen to do so? So why should I help or care?" One of the key words is: Compassion - which we should have ended up developing through our personal heartbreaks.

Regardless, to care, to do our best to help, because this interaction too is part of the global experience. From the moment on we are made aware, or witnessing a situation where we have a positive, loving contribution to offer, then this is the most noble, most fundamental attitude we can have. Manifestation of our awakened humanity, of our activated Heart, Source, or Godspark. And we can consider that this too is meant to be. Ain't nothing like compassion!

I understood at a certain point of my drifting that I could transform what I experienced as failure and condemnation in my life, as a success. That this is our ability - we are alchemists - and that the very circumstances we are in are our opportunity to practice it.

By simply turning myself toward universal divine love, and lighting these areas of my life in which I was cultivating resentment and bitterness, reconnecting with my heart to the heart of those who were involved in what I saw then as my victimhood - it was up to me to either find justifications for staying a victim, or use this opportunity to transform it into a blessing for myself, and, in the process, offer blessing to those involved.

As much the experiences as those involved in them offered me to completely transform myself and thus transform their meaning for me and the meaning of Life and Its experiences - and ultimately my own meaning for myself. I took the opportunity to do so. Expat, is this wishful thinking, or is this a humble awakening (with still a long long way to go) and (at least start of) the fulfillment of the experience of Life?

Once we have discovered such power, do we ever need such experiences anew? Very likely not.

I'm still wrecked, still fallible, still feeling very vulnerable. But now I have turned a lot of what I kept of bitterness into love, love toward those & the circumstances with/through whom/which I had suffered until I wished to die, and several times almost did so. Love for a Life which I hated and still do not feel comfortable with, and which love is still challenged each time I either experience distress for myself, or distress in others, in so many cases - humans, animals, plants and other realms.

But at least I know this: I am able to transform what appears as a curse into a blessing. With the inspiration and power of what I recognise as the Source of Love-Life-Light, as some call God.

In such context, the outrageous circumstances of this life - cause they are outrageous - may make better sense and feel less like bad luck, or indifference, or downright vicious intention.

Last edited by Vanni (Dec 31, 2017 9:06 am)

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#29 Dec 31, 2017 9:10 am

Slice
Active

Re: Gender-Neutral God?: Swedish Churches' Controversial Decision

Calypso wrote:
gripe wrote:

Listen to the arguments on the above topic, here:   https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.pbs.or … perception

The Bible describes God as the "father." so he is masculine and not feminine. I am no feminist. I believe in hierarchy.   Men are the head of their families.  They cannot be two heads in one family. I have no difficulty following along.  If a man is a very strong leader, I'll follow him. I only interject if I don't believe in decisions made.

Well if man is the head, why do you have to interject?  Let him be.  I do not beleive that the man is the head of the house hold.  Now I am the man in my house, but I yield in most cases, when it comes the SOME decision, in my house, eg the color the house needs to be painted, the kind of furniture that needs to buy, the color of the curtain and how it needs to hung.  I prefer to let the wife make all decision that include the inside of the house.

I think me and wifee are equal decision makers.

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#30 Dec 31, 2017 9:19 am

Calypso
Active

Re: Gender-Neutral God?: Swedish Churches' Controversial Decision

Vanni wrote:

Calypso, I thought of general gullibility. I also keep thinking that there is something less noble at works in what I consider as human-made image of a male god, than the interesting explanations you are giving.

But then ... male without female = sterility. So where is really the force? Do we reduce force to physical strength? How about emotional strength, which women, in their turn, are skilled at?

And what if this "forceful" role is not desirable?

Could it be that we are here, precisely, to develop leading our own step in a union by choice with the Source, our Inner Guidance, which we call God? There is a subtle difference between domination and working together. Between domination and surrender. I prefer the two latter ones. Because they ensue from a different spirit.

In my understanding and experience, we have free will in order for us to find out by ourselves the Source and Guidance for each of our actions, and practice to always involve it in any of our actions. And ... though fallible we are: yes we can smile

Contrarily to either depreciating self-belief, or additionally instilled condemning concepts by either religion or science: we are not doomed to be half-animal-like blind creatures of destruction: we have as our core the Spark of Love and Life - or Godspark - which we are here to make consciously and make deliberately the leader of all we do - the purpose, precisely, of Earthly life. Godspark which, also, is the only way we can even exist as an entity. Without it, there is no manifested creation, no manifested creature, no manifested universe. This, too, science has yet to discover.

There is something like ascension of souls, where people have mastered their creative power, where they have recognised the Source and surrendered to Love-Light-God, and are using it only for the good of all concerned, only lead by universal, divine love and in accordance with It. By inclination. By choice.

I say it again here: despite discouraging appearances, our humanity appears to have reached this point - at least, some say that there is a divine timing for the "Event" - and for many of us it is going to be surprisingly upwards. Because we have built up toward this moment, which, some sources say, was decreed at the start of our exploration of forgetting up to denial of the Divine. It was not as much an unfortunate error and accident, as it was a courageous exploration. More than we think of us have gone full circle and are ready for a new cycle of something few of us can imagine of beauty.





>>>>>>And what if this "forceful" role is not desirable?
Could it be that we are here, precisely, to develop leading our own step in a union by choice with the Source, our Inner Guidance, which we call God? There is a subtle difference between domination and working together. Between domination and surrender. I prefer the two latter ones. Because they ensue from a different spirit.>>>>>>>


Vanni, your Nietzcheist  view about God is well taken. Our inner guidance is not unlimited. We have only guided our steps thus far. That is why empires and governments do not and cannot last forever. We have a tendency to use force brutally and not powerfully. We are crude and inhumane in our quest to better the world. Our knowledge is rather and has shone to be limited in the matter.  If you continue to search for the "God." in you, you'll discover that you cannot attain it because of your imperfection,

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