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#31 Dec 31, 2017 3:01 pm

Expat
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Re: Gender-Neutral God?: Swedish Churches' Controversial Decision

Ms Vanni we are very definitely poles apart in our perceptions. Personally, the plaudits you give to a higher being force or however you chose to describe it belong to you. Like many many people who have self deprecated and said it was all God, I was only the vessel he worked through... I really don't believe it. It was THEM, or in your case YOU.

I give YOU the praise. But you have looked for a message from outside yourself, and if that's where you need it to be from if it works for you, then that is fine.

Myself, like all people have had challenges, medical, psychological, physical. Some have created scars, some are inwardly crushing, but we are all the sum of our experiences, and I am glad to say that I have found the strength to fight adversity from within. Personally, I do not need a crutch to hold me up. I take the rises and falls as the random often unpredictable things they are. I am far less clever than the font of all wisdom RD. This is true. I was once much sharper, and cohesive in my thinking capabilities. But then having had multiple head traumas one can see the lights going out.

But for RD's illumination, being clever has nothing to do with understanding faith. You either rationalise events in a spiritual form, or currently in my case you don't.

I have been MANY religions along my path, at the time I found answers I craved as I was looking where I wanted to find those answers. I have experienced a degree of outer body phenomenon, I have practised ritual from Catholic Yiddish to Occult, I have looked in dark corners and been very afraid. Then I saw MY light, the absence of conventional faith. I am told being faithless is a faith, so I accept I am not allowed to simply not believe. But that is the case. I hear all the stories, I hear about the relics, I accept people existed, and to a greater or lesser extent did many of the things they were supposed to have done. At the same time being aware that BC the book was a form of diary justifying many of the inhumanities of the authors. Latterly we will accept AD, being aware that much is either lost in interpretation of the actual words, were allegorical, meaning fables told to educate the ignorant, or we as modern humans do not understand the cultural import of the words we now interpret in a modern way. My only solid comment is JC WAS a Prophet, being a Prophet as there were several running around at that time does not necessarily make you a Messiah.

Your beliefs seem not especially attached to the works of the Bible, but rather influences from outside yourself, so what I wrote in the previous paragraph was more intended for conventional believers to grasp my perspective.

Regardless, we all travel our own path, and I trust yours is smoother as the years extend out before you.

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#32 Jan 02, 2018 6:57 am

Vanni
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Re: Gender-Neutral God?: Swedish Churches' Controversial Decision

Calypso wrote:

Vanni, your Nietzcheist  view about God is well taken. Our inner guidance is not unlimited. We have only guided our steps thus far. That is why empires and governments do not and cannot last forever. We have a tendency to use force brutally and not powerfully. We are crude and inhumane in our quest to better the world. Our knowledge is rather and has shone to be limited in the matter.  If you continue to search for the "God." in you, you'll discover that you cannot attain it because of your imperfection,

Just to clarify, when I say:
There is a subtle difference between domination and working together. Between domination and surrender. I prefer the two latter ones. Because they ensue from a different spirit.
The two latter ones between both sets = working together & surrender.

I beg to disagree with you Calypso:

Precisely, due to the absolute light and love of the Source, It leads me - us to Itself.

Up to me to open myself ever more, to welcome this Light and Love ever more. It dissolves one by one my limitations and resistances.

This is surrender = my personal choice and initiative. Not subjection = through the other one's use of will and power upon us, which, in many cases, is for the good of the other one, rather than for our own, and which in any case is not the best way.

Whether we believe it or not, whether we understand it or not, regardless of our human fallibility:

as humans, we are indeed meant to fully reach this Source, and to fully realise it.

This life is not a vast farce of halfwits on a globe within a solar system condemned to turn into endless circles. This life is for a purpose: our upliftment. So, regardless of our present understanding of it, it will inevitably end up this way. This is how far my understanding - call it faith if you prefer - of the Divine reaches.

The purpose of this present brutal level of life is to dissolve our resistance. This reality is not forever.

We'll inevitably reach the point where such brutality won't be necessary any more, not least because we'll have stopped generating it from ourselves, and thus stopped giving it power and existence in Life. We are close to discover the relationship between our attitude and vibes, and the outer reality. To discover about resonance. Outer reality which is the resonance to our inner reality. It is not meant to be forever, but only until we wake up and are able to generate a gentler, more loving reality, more representative of the Divine.

And a little bird has told me that, despite my own skepticism, we have now no more choice but to take our next evolutionary step. We have turned into circles long enough. It has offered us all it could. This step has now reached saturation. And a next, more evolved level of interaction with Life is opening Itself up for us.

In Its own time, It will give us the necessary stimulation and enable whoever of us is ready and meant to reach next level to do so. And for those who still need more of this present reality, which is not a failure, to be offered with love the same reality to continue their evolution, until next opportunity.

The whole meaning of Life appears to be one of evolution - attuning to Love-Light-Life-God - without limit. And thus, of ever better quality of interaction with Life which we cannot imagine from where we are. Though I am aware of it for some weird reasons - as if it had been my own experience before this life. Quality of interactions which we can sense maybe - or at least long for. And we could do this longing a favour and take it seriously. As one more source of support and nurturing, so we can reach it.

Last edited by Vanni (Jan 02, 2018 8:49 am)

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#33 Jan 02, 2018 7:18 am

Vanni
Active

Re: Gender-Neutral God?: Swedish Churches' Controversial Decision

Expat wrote:

Ms Vanni we are very definitely poles apart in our perceptions. Personally, the plaudits you give to a higher being force or however you chose to describe it belong to you. Like many many people who have self deprecated and said it was all God, I was only the vessel he worked through... I really don't believe it. It was THEM, or in your case YOU.

I give YOU the praise. But you have looked for a message from outside yourself, and if that's where you need it to be from if it works for you, then that is fine.

Expat, no, it is not a message exclusively from outside, nor is it crutches. I am way too interested in honesty for me to be feeling comfortable with crutches.

You see it like this, because either I cannot appropriately put it into words, or/and because it is not your own experience. Because this is a matter of experience.

Mooji is one of my greatest sources of inspiration - see if you resonate to the video below big_smile ... not sure you will, but worth a try.

What you consider as crutches is my own perception of a universal aspect of what I, when I left religion, went for a quest within.

Meditation is not as much about an outer Being as Being from within. And once we reach, however faintly, as in my case, the state of Being from within, we enter into a vast, universal resonance, and we recognise it as part of each living Being, part of the whole Universe. We understand It as the Source and Sustenance of all Life.

I cannot put it well into words, so those who practice meditation, those who are living by their heart - not the least neglecting the wonderful mind, but using it in service to Spirit-Love, may be getting it.

Not the emotional heart, but the one of universal love, which is a state of Being ... those who have entered into resonance with their own Being, automatically enter in resonance with the Universal Being and understand the radiance and universality of what my words cannot express. And make it a conscious part of their life. Humbly and thoroughly.

These are no crutches, Expat. But an irresistible call to, precisely, give up the crutches, and get to know our Self straight, without intermediates. Our Self which is simultaneously the Universal Self.

(should the video start from an odd place within the cursor and not the start, hover over the cursor where it starts, find the little cross, and click on it -> brings it back to the start)

and how about this moment of humour:

Mooji is not about us revering him - and he knows it - it is about us finding resonance in his own resonance to Self, to nurture and intensify the resonance with our own Self.

Then, this is one of my most powerful sources of discovery - zen Buddhism, specifically mindfulness & zazen meditation. Humbly and occasionally practiced here in Switzerland. Japan? As soon as I can, but my absolute first priority:
Grenada smile

at ~ 9':10" a revealing attitude:

Michael Palin:
" ... what will I be able to learn from that time?"

Buddhist Monk:
"You? But this is your problem, you must not ask me"

smile

Last edited by Vanni (Jan 02, 2018 8:43 am)

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#34 Jan 02, 2018 10:43 am

Expat
Active

Re: Gender-Neutral God?: Swedish Churches' Controversial Decision

Nice try Vanns,

I may be running to stand still, but I really could not handle that level of nothingness, being doing feeling, just being in the moment  devoid of processing. The conductors in our brains which is all "WE" are .... The only thing that defines what we think or feel about ourselves is that creamy grey thing in our skulls. The moment the little electric sparks fail to travel we cease to exist. Sleep robs us of a large portion of our lives. To wilfully wipe the slate clean and give up even more of our short tenure is not something I could do now. I have done it, I have had experiences. I like being grounded where I am now.

There are parallels in our thinking, but mine are base and earthy, while yours are ethereal.

You are longing for unity with and in the Universe.

I know for sure that as a child of stardust I shall be one with the universe when I return to dust, but for me it stops there. I do not have any hopes or intentions of joining any ethereal melting pot of mental humanity, or shared space with beings from across the Universe.

If you turned your quest on it's head you would recognise I may have reached what you crave. I have an uncomplicated peace with myself. You are striving, reaching out. As far as I am concerned I have found the answer. Which is peace of mind.

Were religion not made a topic I would have nothing to say about it, but, various folks put forwards their beliefs, opinions, and as such it is incumbent on me to make observations to throw into the mix. Otherwise if everyone is patting themselves on the back there would be a vacuum, and no sound would be heard. It is the noise of debate that generates thought, and to simply accept without thinking is a very sad place to be.

Those that cannot take being challenged probably do not stand on as sound a rock as they would have us believe.

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#35 Jan 02, 2018 5:55 pm

Real Distwalker
Active

Re: Gender-Neutral God?: Swedish Churches' Controversial Decision

I am not in the least ashamed, Expat.  You drew first blood when you slandered Vanni's deeply held belief in metaphysical beauty and love as "sadistic, uncaring, perverted son of a bitch."  That is far more vile and offensive than my potty language.  I stand by my claim.  Anyone rude enough to engage in that kind of obscene abuse of another is an asshole, pure and simple.

Oh, and for the record, calling me out as violating the rules of engagement (summarized as 'don't be a jerk') when you drew first blood in this thread indicates you are either overflowing with chutzpah or, more likely, you are too thick to realize that you were the first to cross the line of decency and decorum.  Don't dish it out if you can't take it.

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#36 Jan 03, 2018 4:48 pm

Expat
Active

Re: Gender-Neutral God?: Swedish Churches' Controversial Decision

RD, frankly you are very foolish, and if there were a God I would leave you to him.

If you can't understand what you wrote should not have been written, and should be erased, then you need help.

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#37 Jan 03, 2018 5:52 pm

Real Distwalker
Active

Re: Gender-Neutral God?: Swedish Churches' Controversial Decision

I know what I wrote and I know what you wrote.  You were being intentionally insulting and offensive.  You wound't get away with using vulgar racist language and your vile comments regarding the deeply held faith of others was just as offensive.

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#38 Jan 03, 2018 6:35 pm

New Historian
Active

Re: Gender-Neutral God?: Swedish Churches' Controversial Decision

Don't worry RD, Expat is just displaying one of the characteristics of his countrymen: extreme atheism. They are proudly pagan, and sometimes go OTT (over the top) with their disdain for those "inferior, primitive peoples" who still cling to their foolish faiths. They are superior in their "rational arrogance"

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#39 Jan 03, 2018 7:32 pm

Expat
Active

Re: Gender-Neutral God?: Swedish Churches' Controversial Decision

So you can get some context...


>>Hundreds of thousands daily will be being abused both sexually and mentally around the World. Children bartered by parents into prostitution to pay for the rest of the family to cope.

There is no sickly sweet explanation for babes not even out of the uterus being riddled with bullet holes by some drug crazed zealot.

If there was a God, he is a sadistic, uncaring, perverted son of a bitch. No ifs no butts no maybe's.<<


Now, you cannot deny the preface. It is around us all the time and far far worse. Whether it is a city engulfed by Pyroclastic flow, Or a sicko in Las Vagas  Or can you whitewash it?

Now because you have told us several times over the years you are so superior maybe you can rationalise these happenings, which if we are being honest are the tip of the iceberg of man made, and natural calamities around the World over the History of Mankind. Something an amoeba level creature like me cannot.

If there is no sentient supreme being, then I can happily accept sheite happens, and happen-stance determines whether you live a care free blissful life, or are mangled by a steam roller.

If you want to call an as yet undefined energy source that triggered what we call the Universe God, but not attribute control. deliberation, and planning to this undefined force. OK, lets call it God. It sounds better than quark, so why not.

But when you start attributing a plan to the process, and craving indulgences from a being that can answer your prayers if it so wishes.... whether you like the result or not. Then you have mantled the being with responsibilities, and I am pretty sure and hope it is not the case, but if your circle of existence was shattered by catastrophic events such as ones I highlighted, and there is much worse out there, I would like to know how you would rationalise it.

I would certainly not be calling that being benevolent. But then I am far too stupid to be allowed an opinion.

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#40 Jan 03, 2018 7:44 pm

Real Distwalker
Active

Re: Gender-Neutral God?: Swedish Churches' Controversial Decision

New Historian wrote:

extreme atheism.

I don't know man.  I really don't think he is an atheist.  The prefix "a" means "not" or "without".  Thus an atheist is without theism or religion.

Expat is not that.  Expat is an anti-theist.  He isn't without religion but indifferent to it.  He hates religion and takes pride in insulting and offending believers.  If he was simply an atheist, it wouldn't bother me.  I have many friends who are that.  My brother is an atheist.   

No, expat is an anti-theist and, therefore, an adversary to anyone who takes part in religion.  That can be irritating and I got angry.

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