You are not logged in.

Announcement

Welcome to the one and only Spiceislander Talkshop.

#51 Jan 04, 2018 7:36 pm

Real Distwalker
Active

Re: Gender-Neutral God?: Swedish Churches' Controversial Decision

I went through a couple years as an atheist and many as an agnostic. 

When someone says to an atheist, "I bring you tidings of great joy which shall be unto all people", the proper response is, "thank you".  You can turn around and roll your eyes but the proper response to someone wishing you great joy is "thank you".

If your response to "I bring you tidings of great joy which shall be unto all people" is "you are a superstitious fool" you aren't an atheist, you are an anti-theist... and a rude asshole.

Offline

#52 Jan 04, 2018 8:10 pm

Vanni
Active

Re: Gender-Neutral God?: Swedish Churches' Controversial Decision

Expat wrote:

You are longing for unity with and in the Universe.

I know for sure that as a child of stardust I shall be one with the universe when I return to dust, but for me it stops there. I do not have any hopes or intentions of joining any ethereal melting pot of mental humanity, or shared space with beings from across the Universe.

If you turned your quest on it's head you would recognise I may have reached what you crave. I have an uncomplicated peace with myself. You are striving, reaching out. As far as I am concerned I have found the answer. Which is peace of mind.

I am not longing as much as I am practicing.

And I am striving for peace of heart. Which is hardly thinkable for me as long as there is one living being suffering.

If I am longing for anything, it's happiness for all. I understand that lack of happiness is part of an evolutionary system. I can place such things in a context, while if I understood you right, for you it's the proof that there is no God. Or that God is sadistic. And yes I can understand your feelings. I have some inner conversations that are not always pretty!

I do not just crave, Expat. I cannot explain well, but I know of a place where what we call paradise is reality of every moment. Which "utopia", as it is being called here, makes me feel responsible for making it more realistic right here, in this place which is more like hell. Again, a hell which can be placed within a context. But nonetheless a hell, a hell which I wish from the bottom of my heart to help make less one for as many people and living beings as possible.

I think that we all have a role to play. Not as much by our minds - which are brilliant and useful only as long as they are under Guidance - as by our hearts.

And this is my focus - doing my best as the fallible human I am.

Last edited by Vanni (Jan 04, 2018 8:11 pm)

Offline

#53 Jan 04, 2018 8:34 pm

Vanni
Active

Re: Gender-Neutral God?: Swedish Churches' Controversial Decision

BTW I do not believe in any way in resignation. Either in the name of atheism = calling this reality as the only one, nor in terms of religion, considering that it's "God's Will" that things are the way they are and we do not intervene.

If we are here, if we have as much a heart as a mind, which we do, I strongly feel that it's for us to recognise our present rather uncomfortable situation, and to act with both heart and mind duly combined. If we are lucky enough to have, more than a sterile idealistic vision, a strong perception of something that can be, it means that we are here to bring it in this reality, whichever it may presently be, and however difficult both differing realities may be to concile ... then comes the concept of miracle, which is essentially the power of Love.

Offline

#54 Jan 04, 2018 9:03 pm

Vanni
Active

Re: Gender-Neutral God?: Swedish Churches' Controversial Decision

Real Distwalker wrote:

Seriously man, what's up with that?  Vanni says that she has suffered horribly in her life but was able to find her way through the pain via her faith in universal love.  Your response?  That her faith is nothing more than a "sickly sweet" rationalization and for what is best understood as a "sadistic and uncaring" false god.   

WTF is the matter with you?  You don't have to agree with the woman but what possesses you to try to steal away her means of finding peace and comfort? 

You are an evangelist of hopelessness and despair.   Why?   Were you abused as a child by a priest or something?

It's OK RD smile when we know something as personal experience, no one's words can destroy it. When we open our hearts, it's our way of offering something of it to those we are talking to. And often it reaches the heart even if the mind rebels against it. But don't tell them big_smile

Offline

#55 Jan 04, 2018 9:44 pm

Vanni
Active

Re: Gender-Neutral God?: Swedish Churches' Controversial Decision

Expat wrote:

The conductors in our brains which is all "WE" are .... The only thing that defines what we think or feel about ourselves is that creamy grey thing in our skulls. The moment the little electric sparks fail to travel we cease to exist. Sleep robs us of a large portion of our lives. To wilfully wipe the slate clean and give up even more of our short tenure is not something I could do now. I have done it, I have had experiences. I like being grounded where I am now.

I have an uncomplicated peace with myself. You are striving, reaching out. As far as I am concerned I have found the answer. Which is peace of mind.

Look at how topics about God are unending smile

If we were just our brain, would we be worth the energy put into our creation & existence? For the physical part, our Moms may know what it takes to bring a baby to Life and to help him/her grow up into an adult. And keep caring for him/her forever more. The love alone involved already justifies the question of what life is about.

However wonderful the physical aspect alone, I understand that there is a source for this wonder.

I am not trying here to convince you of anything else than what you want or can think of. As for me, I am happily feeling outraged - and think we all ought to be - at the idea that I am a soulless bag of various pockets, juices and hard protruding bits, head included, lead by a merry few random convolutions and some chemistry, and once they stop existing, I am no more.

What for you is peace of mind I call it resignation. And resignation can last only as long.

Last edited by Vanni (Jan 04, 2018 9:44 pm)

Offline

#56 Jan 06, 2018 3:15 pm

Expat
Active

Re: Gender-Neutral God?: Swedish Churches' Controversial Decision

Real Distwalker wrote:

Nobody in this thread said that woman was made from Adam's rib or any such nonsense. 

It was argued that there exists a truth, beauty and love that transcends the metaphysical universe.  Why that causes you to spit your anti-religious vitriol is a question best left to your psychoanalyst.


Yayyyyy,

I chose to "argue" that it doesn't, and I illustrated a trifling list of obscenities that surround us every day. If you can rationalise how everything in the garden is fine and dandy when the enormously long list of cruel and hateful things far worse than my blasphemy is out there I would love to hear how you do it.

If we live in splendid isolation living the good life, maybe we can wipe these horrors out of our mind?

While there is room for improvement in my life, I could claim to be contented with my lot, but I cannot close my eyes to the misery that is out there. Maybe you can.

I really cannot find justification for the mantra God is good, love, merciful etc etc. I really don't think you have to be privy to all the great secrets of the Universe to be allowed to reach a conclusion.

To repeat myself, as I often do, it depends on how you want to interpret God as to whether I can fall in lock-step. I am not insisting anyone else holds the same view. But I am quite happy to call the force of creation God.... I do not know what that force was, but I would tend to think of it not as a religious, but more scientific event. Once you as is in we start decreeing it has powers to do and grant what we need as if on the end of an ethereal telephone I just cannot go along with that personalisation... That is just me.

Offline

#57 Jan 06, 2018 3:30 pm

Expat
Active

Re: Gender-Neutral God?: Swedish Churches' Controversial Decision

Vanni wrote:
Expat wrote:

You are longing for unity with and in the Universe.

I know for sure that as a child of stardust I shall be one with the universe when I return to dust, but for me it stops there. I do not have any hopes or intentions of joining any ethereal melting pot of mental humanity, or shared space with beings from across the Universe.

If you turned your quest on it's head you would recognise I may have reached what you crave. I have an uncomplicated peace with myself. You are striving, reaching out. As far as I am concerned I have found the answer. Which is peace of mind.

I am not longing as much as I am practicing.

And I am striving for peace of heart. Which is hardly thinkable for me as long as there is one living being suffering.

If I am longing for anything, it's happiness for all. I understand that lack of happiness is part of an evolutionary system. I can place such things in a context, while if I understood you right, for you it's the proof that there is no God. Or that God is sadistic. And yes I can understand your feelings. I have some inner conversations that are not always pretty!

I do not just crave, Expat. I cannot explain well, but I know of a place where what we call paradise is reality of every moment. Which "utopia", as it is being called here, makes me feel responsible for making it more realistic right here, in this place which is more like hell. Again, a hell which can be placed within a context. But nonetheless a hell, a hell which I wish from the bottom of my heart to help make less one for as many people and living beings as possible.

I think that we all have a role to play. Not as much by our minds - which are brilliant and useful only as long as they are under Guidance - as by our hearts.

And this is my focus - doing my best as the fallible human I am.


I think we have reached the point of splitting hairs here. You in many ways are not saying things that much differently to me, but you have picked on two words "longing and crave". I had to project a thought, or perspective as part of our conversation, and chose two words that seemed to be adequate, they were not adequate enough for you, but were close enough, there is always room for typographical revision. Often times what we or maybe just I write might often be quite different at a second sitting.

Offline

#58 Jan 06, 2018 3:50 pm

Expat
Active

Re: Gender-Neutral God?: Swedish Churches' Controversial Decision

Vanni wrote:
Expat wrote:

The conductors in our brains which is all "WE" are .... The only thing that defines what we think or feel about ourselves is that creamy grey thing in our skulls. The moment the little electric sparks fail to travel we cease to exist. Sleep robs us of a large portion of our lives. To wilfully wipe the slate clean and give up even more of our short tenure is not something I could do now. I have done it, I have had experiences. I like being grounded where I am now.

I have an uncomplicated peace with myself. You are striving, reaching out. As far as I am concerned I have found the answer. Which is peace of mind.

Look at how topics about God are unending smile

If we were just our brain, would we be worth the energy put into our creation & existence? For the physical part, our Moms may know what it takes to bring a baby to Life and to help him/her grow up into an adult. And keep caring for him/her forever more. The love alone involved already justifies the question of what life is about.

However wonderful the physical aspect alone, I understand that there is a source for this wonder.

I am not trying here to convince you of anything else than what you want or can think of. As for me, I am happily feeling outraged - and think we all ought to be - at the idea that I am a soulless bag of various pockets, juices and hard protruding bits, head included, lead by a merry few random convolutions and some chemistry, and once they stop existing, I am no more.

What for you is peace of mind I call it resignation. And resignation can last only as long.


It's a bit challenging to debate, as Don Quijote is standing in the wings ready to pike me with his lance.

However, what life is about is what we make it, that really is nothing to do with the God Head. So whether we fill our surroundings with love, or are beastly is our choice or nature. And a bit like you interpreting my words to your own point of view, I would do the same for resignation. I do not call, or think of my full stop when the eyes close as resignation, although maybe acceptance IS resignation?

Offline

#59 Jan 06, 2018 4:01 pm

Expat
Active

Re: Gender-Neutral God?: Swedish Churches' Controversial Decision

Real Distwalker wrote:

I went through a couple years as an atheist and many as an agnostic. 

When someone says to an atheist, "I bring you tidings of great joy which shall be unto all people", the proper response is, "thank you".  You can turn around and roll your eyes but the proper response to someone wishing you great joy is "thank you".

If your response to "I bring you tidings of great joy which shall be unto all people" is "you are a superstitious fool" you aren't an atheist, you are an anti-theist... and a rude asshole.


Maybe so, but I didn't leave offensive text on an open forum.

To lamely suggest two wrongs make a right is garbage.

I care not one jot that you thought it, or wrote it. I say and have said to me things far far worse. Water off a ducks back.

What I tried to get through your thick skull was that it was inappropriate to leave it there. People can be offended by my Blasphemous comment, but while some might go oh dear it did at least belong to a commentary that one could agree with or disagree with.

An up and down cussing is not part of a debate. It is just crass ignorance, and in days gone by I might well have liked to remove some of my less genteel remarks had the site allowed it then. The apparent fact that you are quite happy to leave such utterances uncensored belittles you.

Offline

#60 Jan 06, 2018 5:57 pm

Real Distwalker
Active

Re: Gender-Neutral God?: Swedish Churches' Controversial Decision

I disagree completely. You scoffing and ridiculing the faith that is a the core of a person's identity is far more offensive than the use of common vulgar language.

Offline

Board footer

Powered by FluxBB