You are not logged in.

Announcement

Welcome to the one and only Spiceislander Talkshop.

#1 Feb 26, 2018 4:00 pm

New Historian
Active

Help needed with this nation's addiction problem

Offline

#2 Feb 26, 2018 5:12 pm

Real Distwalker
Active

Re: Help needed with this nation's addiction problem

Yes, that is clever.   

I don't think Europeans get just how large the United States is.  This was made in the Netherlands.  That whole nation would fit in less than 1/3 of just Iowa.  This is a big country.  It overlays Europe from Lisbon to Moscow.

Why does that matter?  It matters because people from small countries don't get that their statistics don't really mean what they think.  For example, I am a man who has lived to the age of 54 without ever hearing a shot fired in anger in the US.  Other than one suicide 30 years ago, I have never known anyone who was shot. 

I get the feeling that people from little bitty places don't get that almost all of America's gun violence is in about six or eight counties.  Most of the country doesn't have a problem.  Folks in Grenada feel that it is safe although its homicide rate is quite a bit greater than the US and a hell of a lot greater than places like Iowa.

I recall that my Swiss brother-in-law, after he moved to the US, was asked by his elderly mother what the weather was like in the US.  Where?  Hawaii or Alaska?  Southern California or Minnesota?  She just didn't get how big the country was.

As for Europeans moralizing about violence, well, they really shouldn't.  The history of Europe over the last century has been one of violence that killed tens of millions.  They perfected the art of mass slaughter, continental butchery and wholesale homicide.  I am not 100 percent convinced they have that tendency out of their systems yet.  Some argue that German militarism only sleeps, it never dies.

In any case, yes, I am embarrassed by our president.  Yes, I am saddened by gun violence.  But what can be done?  Americans are not going to just surrender their guns like good little subjects of the Crown.  It doesn't work that way.  We aren't Netherlanders or even Swiss.  We chafe under government dominance.  That ethos comes with a price and gun violence is part of the bill we pay.

Last edited by Real Distwalker (Feb 26, 2018 5:13 pm)

Offline

#3 Feb 26, 2018 7:14 pm

New Historian
Active

Re: Help needed with this nation's addiction problem

"That ethos comes with a price and gun violence is part of the bill we pay."

You sound proud of it. You people are besotted with your so-called frontier spirit; get real: the frontier days ended hundreds of years ago, the govmint folks aren't a-comin' fer your stills, Martha, you can come out the bunker now. Yeah the place is big and yeah I keep hearing about your "lack of anger" in shooting a gun (again, you almost sound wistful at that one), but the fact remains, statistically, across all towns, cities and hick towns like yours (LOL), the evidence is clear: the rate of gun deaths in the USA, per capita, is hiher than any other OECD country. Even within the USA, the trend is also clear: the more guns there; the more gun deaths there are. You see little, peaceful, idyllic, gun-owning, peaceful Iowa in this picture? You're right along the trend line.

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/02/ … un-deaths/

Jeez.

Offline

#4 Feb 26, 2018 8:30 pm

Real Distwalker
Active

Re: Help needed with this nation's addiction problem

You act like it is up to me.  I am simply telling you the way it is.

I see no way to get rid of guns.  Right now California, Colorado and Washington are ignoring federal marijuana laws to no ill effect.  The state police won't enforce federal law and cannot be forced to do so.  California and scores of municipalities are ignoring federal immigration law and the feds can't force them to enforce it.

If your dream of getting rid of guns is tried, at least half the states will refuse to enforce the federal law and that will be that.

Even when states pass laws like these they tend to be ignored.  A few years ago New Jersey passed a law that all grandfathered so-called assault rifles had to be registered.  They estimated there are 100,000 to 200,000 in the state.  Only 967 were registered.

If the feds to go after a few gun resisters in states like Texas, you can bet that the juries will be full of gun sympathizers and no convictions will be had.

What will happen is the nation will be further divided. More hateful. More dysfunctional.

I am not saying any of this is right or wrong, it is just the way it is.

Online

Offline

#5 Feb 26, 2018 8:43 pm

New Historian
Active

Re: Help needed with this nation's addiction problem

"You act like it is up to me."

Your hypocrisy is staggering. It IS up to you, each and every one of you. Do you vote? Does your "one in a million vote" make any difference to the outcome of the election? No it doesn't. But you still vote, because it's your much-vaunted "civic duty" to vote. So where does your sacred duty disappear to, when it comes to your paranoid fear of someone taking away your precious guns - which have never been fired in anger, nor ever will?

Offline

#6 Feb 26, 2018 8:53 pm

Real Distwalker
Active

Re: Help needed with this nation's addiction problem

Dude.  Nothing I do or don't do is going to change the gun situation in America.  That isn't hypocrisy.  It is a certitude.

Offline

#7 Feb 26, 2018 9:34 pm

houston
Active

Re: Help needed with this nation's addiction problem

RD, do you pay dues to the NRA?
An organization who's only solution to gun violence is to buy more guns and arm more people.

Offline

#8 Feb 26, 2018 9:57 pm

Real Distwalker
Active

Re: Help needed with this nation's addiction problem

I used to but it started playing "culture warrior" so I stopped.

Offline

#9 Feb 26, 2018 10:19 pm

Expat
Active

Re: Help needed with this nation's addiction problem

Statistics are almost always open for interpretation, and have to viewed in context. Small Island people get that.

The Dutch do live in the Netherlands, or Holland, which is one of the most concentrated populations in Europe, but they still have open land between cities and Villages, just like the UK, where you can drive for several hours without seeing a city or village when you are on the motorway. We kinda understand wide open spaces... even if they are few and far between for us. We cannot all be judged by aging relatives.

While there is absolutely no argument that Europe has been involved in a series of bloody power struggles over many centuries, most (I did say most, not all) of them were resolved with a few hundred deaths per battle resulting in a change of ownership or affiliation. It was only those wars that America joined into....Thankyou.... that became total bloodfests WW1 +2.

But being judgemental would not be the best thing when talking from a country that killed off thousands of the previous inhabitants, just because they were in the way. Or shipped them off to a wide open spaces version of detention camps. Or set many a brother against brother in some bloody battles.

The same slumbering ogre that sits in Europe and is flashing its eyes with loathing for all peoples strange and new, has a brother of the same pugnacity in America... lets face it Americans are largely Europeans with a funny accent. Mr Trump has put out the clarion call to these bigoted halfwits, and they are ready to rise, just like the fascist thugs in Germany/Poland, and several other countries.

Considering NH's comment that the Government IS the people, and is put there democratically, I guess you must be afraid to look in the mirror.....

Anything vaguely looking like a committee is likely to piss off somebody at some point. I know I am usually unimpressed by the decisions of the many. But other than having an Expat or RD dictatorship what other choice is there.

Republicans seem to want to cut everything below the bone, meaning everyone who hasn't had a successful life dies of some insurance companies moratorium, or libraries close, or anything not bolted down gets thrown away. The Government as you call it gets lighter, and thousands of mostly meaningful jobs with mostly reasonable wages get cut, meaning there is less money flowing around the economy, and more unnecessary hardship. Then those that still have their little PLC, or entrepreneurial business can look down on the losers and say they should go and find work.

Government should not be stacked to the ceiling with standing committees that achieve nothing, or regulations just for the sake of keeping the regulators occupied. But street cleaners, Bin men, Gritters, Libraries, public funded youth schemes to keep kids out of trouble etc etc deserve sustenance. Me, I would like nothing better than to be responsible to no one, pay no taxes, and let the devil take the hindmost, but we live in a ? civilised society, and rules, regulations, and cost have to be accepted.

Despite hitting the drum more softly these days, I am sure I remember an RD that followed the NRA's policy to the letter, with no wish to reduce or regulate, now there seems to be more of a shrug of the shoulders, and a I can't see how it would be done.

The answer is bit by bit. If we live in the fantasy land that a bunch of Hells angels are going to circle your homestead, and everyone needs an arsenal for such eventualities sure we need to stock up with AR15's, but the truth is things like that almost never happen.... except in movies.... and people who like guns.... and I am not agin em, also like the image, so a gadget laden handle every situation semi auto is the way to go, as it is a fun toy. I get it. I wouldn't mind running some lead down the pipe myself. But just as an off the shelf hunting rifle probably only hold 5 rounds, so could the AR15. As the AR15 is just a multi-platform hunting rifle that looks a bit sinister.

Offline

#10 Feb 26, 2018 10:25 pm

Real Distwalker
Active

Re: Help needed with this nation's addiction problem

I will turn my firearms in... last.  When all the criminals are disarmed and the cops are walking the beat with rubber billies, I will gladly surrender my guns.  Until then, I am hanging on to them.

There are about 100 million gun owners in the US who feel the same way.

The reality is that I don't think law abiding people should be disarmed by the state.  We are free people, not subjects of some crown.  The idea that the government could or should disarm free, law abiding, responsible citizens is reprehensible.

Last edited by Real Distwalker (Feb 26, 2018 10:27 pm)

Offline

Board footer

Powered by FluxBB