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#11 Apr 26, 2018 5:08 pm

Real Distwalker
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Re: See Expat? This is the problem.

Expat wrote:

Maybe the old countries are a bit more intelligent with their adjudication as to what is acceptable.

What speech is acceptable?    I will defer to this Englishman.

if-liberty-means-anything.png

The United States, by the way, is a lot older nation than is Germany.

Last edited by Real Distwalker (Apr 26, 2018 5:09 pm)

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#12 Apr 26, 2018 5:25 pm

houston
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Re: See Expat? This is the problem.

Interesting that there are no limits on what one can promote.

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#13 Apr 26, 2018 5:36 pm

Expat
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Re: See Expat? This is the problem.

If you have no problem with a man training a dog to gesture like a Nazi to statements suggesting their death, then one of us has no sense of balance. It is crass and incensative,

To be as explicit as I can be as an example.

Whereas a non Black cussing out a guy and calling him the N Word is both unpleasant, and might be deemed trying to create public disorder. That is one thing.

To create a movie clip with a dog in a KKK hood while the owner chants burn all Nwords.... That is another, and if you think your free speech accepts incitement to violence and murder, then .... words fail me. It shows a high level of gauche naivety.

As for country age, that yet again was silly, because while boarders may have changed the peoples within not so much.

I am bloody sure Orwell did not mean the garbage you have no trouble supporting. I was going to write something bogus but personal to you as an example, but decency stopped me.

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#14 Apr 26, 2018 6:27 pm

Real Distwalker
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Re: See Expat? This is the problem.

I have a problem with all kinds of speech.  That doesn't mean that I should shut them up.  It is crass and insensitive.  Crass and insensitive speech is the only kind that needs protection.  Delightful, polite speech doesn't need protection.  If you don't believe in protecting crass and intensive speech, you don't believe in free speech.  Freedom means the right to your own mind and your own voice.  If you don't have that, you don't have shit.

As for Orwell, you really don't know much about him.  He didn't believe in suppressing speech and spent a lifetime railing against crimethink and government coercion of thought and word.  Did you never read 1984?

George Orwell wrote:

Threats to freedom of speech, writing and action, though often trivial in isolation, are cumulative in their effect and, unless checked, lead to a general disrespect for the rights of the citizen.

Germany didn't even exist as a country until 1871 and its government has radically changed many times since then.  The German Republic in existence today only has existed since 1949.

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#15 Apr 26, 2018 6:30 pm

houston
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Re: See Expat? This is the problem.

Opinions on free speech.

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#16 Apr 26, 2018 6:30 pm

Real Distwalker
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Re: See Expat? This is the problem.

houston wrote:

Interesting that there are no limits on what one can promote.

There are all kinds of social pressures, however.  If you engage in hateful speech in America, the government can't charge you with a crime.  You can, however, be shunned, fired from your job, lose contracts and all manner of other nasty stuff.

To quote Orwell again on something that used to be true in Britain and is still true in the US...

George Orwell wrote:

At any given moment there is an orthodoxy, a body of ideas which it is assumed that all right-thinking people will accept without question. It is not exactly forbidden to say this, that or the other, but it is ‘not done’ to say it, just as in mid-Victorian times it was ‘not done’ to mention trousers in the presence of a lady. Anyone who challenges the prevailing orthodoxy finds himself silenced with surprising effectiveness. A genuinely unfashionable opinion is almost never given a fair hearing.

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#17 Apr 26, 2018 6:53 pm

Real Distwalker
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Re: See Expat? This is the problem.

Quoting a few other Brits....

John Milton wrote:

Give me the liberty to know, to utter, and to argue freely according to conscience, above all liberties.

Winston Churchill wrote:

So we must beware of a tyranny of opinion which tries to make only one side of a question the one which may be heard. Everyone is in favour of free speech. Hardly a day passes without its being extolled, but some people’s idea of it is that they are free to say what they like, but if anyone says anything back, that is an outrage.

Evelyn Beatrice Hall wrote:

I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

Samuel Johnson wrote:

Every man has a right to utter what he thinks truth, and every other man has a right to knock him down for it.

George Orwell wrote:

Take away freedom of speech, and the creative faculties dry up.

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#18 Apr 27, 2018 8:27 am

Expat
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Re: See Expat? This is the problem.

Fortunately, here at least we have as you have demonstrated many free thinkers. and those free thinkers would have, as you showed supported people being open with their opinions, however many of them, and others besides also had common sense, and know when to curb the excesses of racists and similar types. Which is why we do not have laws to prevent free speech, but do have laws which prevent incitement to violence.... which would have been utterances from someone expressing their free speech.

There are always limitations. Society is self regulating. When it fails to regulate we end up with the likes of Hitler who was very good at hate speech, but you of course would have fought to let him spew his vile opinions.

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#19 Apr 27, 2018 9:10 am

Real Distwalker
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Re: See Expat? This is the problem.

An yet here we are, able to say things on this site that would get us arrested in Merry Ol' England.  I could post a Nazi pug on Talkshop and nobody can do dick.   Why?  Because this website is hosted in a free country.

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#20 May 06, 2018 2:40 pm

Expat
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Re: See Expat? This is the problem.

The interesting thing is the guy is Scottish ergo British. Regardless it was a pretty reprehensible piece of rubbish expressing statements that were unpleasant and inflammatory. He could easily have achieved his intention by simple saying Sieg Heil (hail victory) which was the normal prompt for the salute, rather than gas the Jews.

John Cleese etc would have been taking the piss out of Hitler and the Germans, not promoting their most vile attributes. It was laughing at the German Leader that the Brits would have been laughing at, not the murder of millions of people.

You are to be commended for your consistency in being unaware or indifference to what is simply bad taste ergo better NOT posted.

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