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#11 Sep 18, 2018 10:00 am

New Historian
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Re: Go on Blame the Europeans... it's easier that way.

yet there are some kind of benefits.

I'm dying to hear this one....

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#12 Sep 18, 2018 11:27 am

Real Distwalker
Active

Re: Go on Blame the Europeans... it's easier that way.

My grandfather was killed in combat in WWII.  At the time, my grandmother was living with my two year old father in Rock Island, Illinois.  When her husband was killed, my grandmother took her son and moved back to her parents' farm in Iowa where my father grew up.  There he met my mother, was married and I was born.

Had my grandfather not been killed in action, he would have returned to his home and job in Illinois, raised my father there and he would have never met my mother.  I would have never been born.

While I recognize the tragedy of my grandfather's death and while I don't think there is any good in it, nevertheless I am glad I was born and must acknowledge it was my grandfather's death that made my birth possible.

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#13 Sep 18, 2018 11:53 am

New Historian
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Re: Go on Blame the Europeans... it's easier that way.

And the parallel to slavery is....? Oh I get it, slavery was "good" because, we're born?

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#14 Sep 18, 2018 12:22 pm

Real Distwalker
Active

Re: Go on Blame the Europeans... it's easier that way.

Slavery is not good. It was a crime against humanity.  Much of history is.  That said, everything we have and will ever have is a product of our history. 

I guess I am trying to say there is a duality there.  I feel that my divorce was a terrible failure in my life.  I regret it.  At the same time, I recognize that, had I not been divorced, I would not have my current wife or my youngest son.  I wouldn't trade them for anything.

That's the duality: I regret my divorce and I am glad it happened at the same time. 

Counterfactuals are hard to prove but we don't know what a counterfactual world in which slavery never occured would look like.  Would the wold be better today?  I honestly don't know.  For all I know, the billions of actions that would have been different would have culminated in a nuclear war that resulted in the extinction of mankind.

Before you get all indignant and pissed at me, I am 100 percent certain that the transatlantic slave trade was a massive, vile crime against humanity.  I am not defending it in any way, shape or form.

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#15 Sep 18, 2018 12:26 pm

New Historian
Active

Re: Go on Blame the Europeans... it's easier that way.

Me get pissed at you RD? Good gosh, never! smile

Ah so you were divorced too? According to Expat, that proves that marriage as an institution has failed, his much vaunted 50% divorce rate and all that. Bunkum I say: marriage hasn't failed, it just takes a couple of goes to get it right lol!!

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#16 Sep 18, 2018 3:45 pm

Real Distwalker
Active

Re: Go on Blame the Europeans... it's easier that way.

Yes, I was divorced 23 years ago.  I have had the same wife since before I first posted on Talkshop in 2002.

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#17 Sep 18, 2018 5:00 pm

Expat
Active

Re: Go on Blame the Europeans... it's easier that way.

New Historian wrote:

Did you read what I wrote? I fully acknowledge the contributory guilt of the African. But that is subsidiary to the overweening, systemic guilt of the European powers, who spared no evil in subjugating the "New World" (although it had been there for eons before they stumbled across it) and bending them to Europe's will, even if that meant wiping them out in the name of "God". Did you read about the Conquistadors? Columbus? The genocide of the American Indian?

"Slavery" of a sort had existed in Africa for generations before the white man came, but it was nowhere near the systematized brutality of plantation slavery in the New World: the Africans had no idea of the real horrors they were consigning their fellow Africans to. Like I said: I'm not absolving them of blame - but "yours" is greater.


There is no mine or yours is greater.  Please don't try to salve the Black conscience  by intimating they did not know... Lets be real, the victims were tethered and beaten long before they saw the docks.  The Traders simply did not care.

The gist of the post was how they became enslaved, and the responsibility of those involved. Not the horrendous abuses that occurred if and when they reached foreign soil.

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#18 Sep 19, 2018 8:36 am

Slice
Active

Re: Go on Blame the Europeans... it's easier that way.

New Historian wrote:

yet there are some kind of benefits.

I'm dying to hear this one....

Ah good example is me and you.  If there was no slavery you and I would not of been here.

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#19 Sep 19, 2018 7:35 pm

Expat
Active

Re: Go on Blame the Europeans... it's easier that way.

Slice wrote:
New Historian wrote:

yet there are some kind of benefits.

I'm dying to hear this one....

Ah good example is me and you.  If there was no slavery you and I would not of been here.


They really should have abolished slavery a lot sooner..... LoL.... smile

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#20 Sep 20, 2018 9:21 am

Dancer
Active

Re: Go on Blame the Europeans... it's easier that way.

Real Distwalker wrote:

My grandfather was killed in combat in WWII.  At the time, my grandmother was living with my two year old father in Rock Island, Illinois.  When her husband was killed, my grandmother took her son and moved back to her parents' farm in Iowa where my father grew up.  There he met my mother, was married and I was born.

Had my grandfather not been killed in action, he would have returned to his home and job in Illinois, raised my father there and he would have never met my mother.  I would have never been born.

While I recognize the tragedy of my grandfather's death and while I don't think there is any good in it, nevertheless I am glad I was born and must acknowledge it was my grandfather's death that made my birth possible.

>>>>>>

What a load of bonkers  ( did not see that word for years, meaning off the wall) .

RD's  grandfather is the cause of his being on TS , talking balls.

Lord !

Last edited by Dancer (Sep 20, 2018 10:35 am)

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