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#1 Jun 19, 2020 4:27 pm

gripe
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"Sorry is not enough" Caribbean Govts. on British Slavery Apology

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#2 Jun 19, 2020 6:54 pm

houston
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Re: "Sorry is not enough" Caribbean Govts. on British Slavery Apology

Interesting article Gripe.
I get the grievance of the Caribbean nations that were left with slave holes and suddenly had to fend for themselves in an economic world. Is it comparable to the funded Indigenous reserves here in Canada? Maybe so.
What I don’t get is that every kid (European, African, Asian, Indigenous) that I had as class mates in grade kindergarten had equal access to every institution as myself.
If they or I failed in life it certainly wasn't due to racism or lack of support.
We were all given an equal chance.

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#3 Jun 19, 2020 7:26 pm

New Historian
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Re: "Sorry is not enough" Caribbean Govts. on British Slavery Apology

Stuff your mealy-mouthed apologies, apologies ever fed anyone? Apologies ever built schools? Apologies ever built a hospital? Big fekkin stupes, stuff your sorries. Tony Blair go to Africa and shed crocodile tears for UK's role in slavery. Did that help anyone?

Doh fokkin start me off oui.

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#4 Jun 19, 2020 7:53 pm

Expat
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Re: "Sorry is not enough" Caribbean Govts. on British Slavery Apology

Yep, I think we should have reparations, then I can get a piece of the cake.

The original transgressions were heinous, the abuses after the fact were terrible, the concept of being property without any hope of release and your entire life decided for you and your wife, and children on the whim of a master diabolical. That not just one generation, but many many could be in a loop of misery is awful.

After the event it is hard to find a right way to make amends. Perhaps as I gather helping institutions, maybe.

You may not like this, but I do try to find balance, millions of ordinary Britain's during that same period were regardless as worthless, and lived in horrendous conditions, meny up until pretty recently, with the slum tenements of Glasgow for example. I can recall visiting a friends from College abode when I was about 17, and it was literally the 2 up and 2 down dwelling with a few by few enclosed space at the back. That was redeveloped not many years later, and that road doesn't even exist anymore.

There has been abject misery with child mortality through the roof. The slavery might not have been total, as in you belonged to someone, although to a certain extent even that occurred, but your choices could well be very limited, you probably never left the village, and a subsistence living was the best you could hope to manage.

The same few that owned the overseas estates owned the estates in the UK, the same people thrived at the expense of the workers. There seems to be this quaint idea that Britain grew rich at the expense of the slaves. Rather a few Britain's grew very rich at the expense of everybody. The people that died of the cold in unheated hovels did not see any benefits at all. And now the various nations that were part of the "Empire" have come home to roost, many immigrants first second and more generations have had a dip in the same pie the overseas people want to draw on.

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#5 Jun 19, 2020 8:51 pm

Real Distwalker
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Re: "Sorry is not enough" Caribbean Govts. on British Slavery Apology

Do I get anything for having two ancestors who fought for the Union during the Civil War?

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#6 Jun 19, 2020 10:40 pm

New Historian
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Re: "Sorry is not enough" Caribbean Govts. on British Slavery Apology

"There seems to be this quaint idea that Britain grew rich at the expense of the slaves."

I suggest you read your history before spouting uninformed drivel. I'd suggest Eric Williams' Capitalism and Slavery, followed by Rodney's How Europe Underdeveloped Africa. It's all there, in hard facts and numbers. Yes the Brit ruling classes exploited you lot too, but the real money came from the Empire. Which meant slavery and imperialism. The fact that you don't know or acknowledge that surprises me.

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#7 Jun 19, 2020 11:01 pm

Expat
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Re: "Sorry is not enough" Caribbean Govts. on British Slavery Apology

So where did the wealth come from that made Britain powerful in the latter half of the last century?  Did it come from Slavery, or Entrepreneurship, Engineering, Trade, Financial institutions... maybe? Just maybe.

Britain was all but Bankrupt after 2 World Wars, not helped by the winners underwriting the losers so that there could continue to be a trade circle. So Germany in particular after bombing the frances out of our factories had nice new ones with brand new machines making them more productive per man than the UK could manage on old decrepit machinery.

I strongly remember the British workers being berated for being less productive in the 60's and 70's, hardly their fault when as I know from working in manufacturing some of the machinery was pre WW1.

So no, much of the modern wealth that up until this pandemic was burning your eyes didn't come from slavery.

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#8 Jun 20, 2020 6:16 am

gripe
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Re: "Sorry is not enough" Caribbean Govts. on British Slavery Apology

Guys, I did not plan to post the original link in this thread and then disappear as appeared to happen yesterday.  So, here I am.

The responses so far reflect, not surprisingly, the deep-seated emotions that the topic can generate. 

Expat, the following quote addresses your argument in your last post yesterday on the subject:

"The footprints of slavery, and the profits it bequeathed to generations, still shape the present. The Slavery Abolition Act of 1833 formally freed 800,000 Africans. Not one of them got a penny. Instead, the British government paid out today’s equivalent of £16bn to former slave owners to “compensate” them for their loss of “property”, a national debt that took until 2015 to be paid off. Yes, that means the descendants of slaves here in the UK were, until just four years ago, paying off slave owners for their ancestors’ freedom."

Read more at the source, here: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr … in-slavery

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#9 Jun 21, 2020 11:07 am

Slice
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Re: "Sorry is not enough" Caribbean Govts. on British Slavery Apology

Today, is me day to relax, ent raising me Blood pressure up today, with this topic.  Happy Pupa day to all Talkshoppers.

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#10 Jun 21, 2020 11:33 am

New Historian
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Re: "Sorry is not enough" Caribbean Govts. on British Slavery Apology

Expat wrote:

So where did the wealth come from that made Britain powerful in the latter half of the last century?  Did it come from Slavery, or Entrepreneurship, Engineering, Trade, Financial institutions... maybe? Just maybe.

Britain was all but Bankrupt after 2 World Wars, not helped by the winners underwriting the losers so that there could continue to be a trade circle. So Germany in particular after bombing the frances out of our factories had nice new ones with brand new machines making them more productive per man than the UK could manage on old decrepit machinery.

I strongly remember the British workers being berated for being less productive in the 60's and 70's, hardly their fault when as I know from working in manufacturing some of the machinery was pre WW1.

So no, much of the modern wealth that up until this pandemic was burning your eyes didn't come from slavery.

All true, but irrelevant. I'm not talking about what kept Britain going, I'm talking about what got her started, and that, undisputedly, was its empire. Why the hell you think they had it in the first place, and engaged in endless wars to keep it? Because of altruism? To civilize the savages? The British empire was one of PLUNDER, and a key ingredient that made that plunder possible was SLAVERY.

With all due respect, I didn't pick my moniker on here by accident, and this is a subject that I've read, and written, about for many decades, since UWI days. So give me a little credit: slavery was the making of the wealth that propelled Britain to the Industrial Revolution. Just look at the "names" of London, Liverpool, Bristol.

Yeah sure, the good old Bulldog Spirit kept Blighty going, beat Napoleon and won endless wars. Take a bow. But acknowledge your historical debt to the descendants of the slaves that you exploited.

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