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#11 Jul 17, 2020 11:53 am

houston
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Re: BLACK FOLK AND THEIR STUPIDITY AND CORONA

Found this story to be interesting, if not ridiculous.

https://nationalpost.com/news/chinese-g … 338a25c04/

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#12 Jul 17, 2020 11:56 am

Expat
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Re: BLACK FOLK AND THEIR STUPIDITY AND CORONA

Restricting trade is what the big man is doing now. Chasing the cheapest product is not really opening up trade, it is putting your own people on the scrap heap. Making it doubly harder for them to buy the products you want to sell. Opening factories to supply a market directly makes sense, but to outsource so you can re-import your own product..... sucks.

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#13 Jul 17, 2020 11:58 am

Expat
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Re: BLACK FOLK AND THEIR STUPIDITY AND CORONA

houston wrote:

Found this story to be interesting, if not ridiculous.

https://nationalpost.com/news/chinese-g … 338a25c04/


Fox in the hen house.

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#14 Jul 17, 2020 1:17 pm

Real Distwalker
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Re: BLACK FOLK AND THEIR STUPIDITY AND CORONA

Expat wrote:

Restricting trade is what the big man is doing now. Chasing the cheapest product is not really opening up trade, it is putting your own people on the scrap heap. Making it doubly harder for them to buy the products you want to sell. Opening factories to supply a market directly makes sense, but to outsource so you can re-import your own product..... sucks.

Literally everything in that statement is false.  Not a little bit.  It is 100 percent false.

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#15 Jul 17, 2020 2:03 pm

houston
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Re: BLACK FOLK AND THEIR STUPIDITY AND CORONA

RD, I'm certainly no expert on the subject of trade. You once said that there is no such thing as fair trade, one party has to come out on top of every swap and I totally understand that. But, should there not at least be a fair playing field?
If one party is able to consistently low ball on every bid because of government financial assistance, it doesn't make for much of a contest.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features … rom-nortel

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#16 Jul 17, 2020 2:20 pm

Real Distwalker
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Re: BLACK FOLK AND THEIR STUPIDITY AND CORONA

houston wrote:

RD, I'm certainly no expert on the subject of trade. You once said that there is no such thing as fair trade, one party has to come out on top of every swap...


I never said anything of the sort.  In fact, I would argue that all trade is fair trade or it wouldn't take place.  Nobody buys a Chinese product unless he thinks he is getting a fair deal.  If he things the trade is unfair he doesn't do it.

The "playing field" has nothing to do with it.  Japan can't grow soybeans with a fraction of the efficiency of Iowa.  So we sell Japan soybeans.  It isn't unfair that the cost of producing a bushel of beans is cheap for Iowans an expensive for the Japanese.  It just frees up Japanese labor to make things that Americans want to buy.

Iowans could grow their own oranges, coffee and nutmeg.  We could build massive greenhouses and grow those things.  They would cost a thousand times more to produce than does buying them from growers in warmer climes.

Iowans focus on producing corn, soybeans, pork, beef and eggs which we can produce at a much lower cost than oranges, coffee and nutmeg.  We sell the things we can produce and buy all the oranges, coffee and nutmeg we can consume.

If we tried to grow oranges, coffee and nutmeg in Iowa, not only would those products cost a fortune, we would have to divert labor from corn, soybeans, pork, beef and eggs diminishing our income from those things.  It would be an economic disaster!

If Grenada tried to create jobs by importing nothing, the standard of living in Grenada would make North Korea look good.

These are obvious scenarios but the same principle applies for all products.  Americans shouldn't be making flat screen TVs if the Vietnamese can make them more efficiently.  Americans should be producing pork and jet airliners and software and medicine with that labor and making enough income to buy more TVs from Vietnam than they would ever want.

Next time someone whines about shipping jobs overseas, laugh derisively in his face.  Anyone who says that doesn't have the slightest inkling as to how trade works.  Repeat after me: When government creates policies to restrict trade and commerce, it damages the economy.  Not sometimes.  All the time.

PS: Trump is a dedicated trade protectionist.  That should tell you something.

Last edited by Real Distwalker (Jul 17, 2020 6:27 pm)

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#17 Jul 17, 2020 2:42 pm

Real Distwalker
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Re: BLACK FOLK AND THEIR STUPIDITY AND CORONA

I want to elaborate....

Let's say that with one unit of labor and capital, Canada can produce 10,000 bushels of wheat.

Let's say that with one unit of labor and capital, Canada can produce 1 bushel of nutmeg (it's expensive to produce nutmeg in Canada!)

Let's say that with one unit of labor and capital, Grenada can produce 100 bushels of nutmeg.

Let's say that with one unit of labor and capital, Grenada can produce 1 bushel of wheat.  (It's expensive to produce wheat in Grenada.


WITHOUT TRADE

Two units of labor and capital in Canada gets them 10,000 bushels of wheat and one bushel of nutmeg

Two units of labor and capital in Grenada gets 100 bushels of nutmeg and 1 bushel of wheat.


WITH TRADE

Two units of labor and capital in Canada gets them 20,000 bushels of wheat of which they can sell a few and buy all the nutmeg they could ever want from Grenada.

Two units of labor and capital gets Grenada 200 bushels of nutmeg of which they can sell two or three and buy all the wheat they can consume.


Obviously trade is much, much better than no trade.


Well, except for Expat who is about to show up and cry fat tears that Canada shipped all its nutmeg producing jobs to Grenada. smile

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#18 Jul 17, 2020 4:29 pm

houston
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Re: BLACK FOLK AND THEIR STUPIDITY AND CORONA

Got it, thanks.
Just wondering about how the economy works. A nickle for a nickle makes no cents.

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#19 Jul 17, 2020 7:22 pm

Expat
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Re: BLACK FOLK AND THEIR STUPIDITY AND CORONA

Real Distwalker wrote:
Expat wrote:

Restricting trade is what the big man is doing now. Chasing the cheapest product is not really opening up trade, it is putting your own people on the scrap heap. Making it doubly harder for them to buy the products you want to sell. Opening factories to supply a market directly makes sense, but to outsource so you can re-import your own product..... sucks.

Literally everything in that statement is false.  Not a little bit.  It is 100 percent false.

I guess we'll agree to disagree 100%.

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#20 Jul 17, 2020 7:35 pm

Expat
Active

Re: BLACK FOLK AND THEIR STUPIDITY AND CORONA

Real Distwalker wrote:

I want to elaborate....

Let's say that with one unit of labor and capital, Canada can produce 10,000 bushels of wheat.

Let's say that with one unit of labor and capital, Canada can produce 1 bushel of nutmeg (it's expensive to produce nutmeg in Canada!)

Let's say that with one unit of labor and capital, Grenada can produce 100 bushels of nutmeg.

Let's say that with one unit of labor and capital, Grenada can produce 1 bushel of wheat.  (It's expensive to produce wheat in Grenada.


WITHOUT TRADE

Two units of labor and capital in Canada gets them 10,000 bushels of wheat and one bushel of nutmeg

Two units of labor and capital in Grenada gets 100 bushels of nutmeg and 1 bushel of wheat.


WITH TRADE

Two units of labor and capital in Canada gets them 20,000 bushels of wheat of which they can sell a few and buy all the nutmeg they could ever want from Grenada.

Two units of labor and capital gets Grenada 200 bushels of nutmeg of which they can sell two or three and buy all the wheat they can consume.


Obviously trade is much, much better than no trade.


Well, except for Expat who is about to show up and cry fat tears that Canada shipped all its nutmeg producing jobs to Grenada. smile


Your saying a lot, but a set of hypotheses that are mostly buckwheat.

If lets say I build a car in Motown, and Chrysler ships all its business to Japan, then for cents on the dollar Chrysler has pulled back the foreskin and screwed it's workers.

If however Chrysler opens a new factory in Japan to more efficiently supply Japan and the region, then it has made a sensible decision. When Japan does the same thing, and builds Hondas in who  knows where, maybe Iowa, then again it is a sensible decision for Honda. And a great win win for the workers AND the country as it minimises the application of tariffs, so keeps the cost of the product down.

But If Unilever figures manufacturing costs of Daz, Tide, and Toothpaste is too expensive in Michigan and ships the whole operation to Taiwan or India, then buddy boy they have given the workers the roger.

If you have a dick head for a President, then he wages trade wars with everybody, including long standing trading partners, creates tariffs, making things more expensive to buy, and if you grow certain crops, then the taxman collects your subsidy from the general public ripping money out of the many to feed the few.  Great job Mr President.

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