You are not logged in.

Announcement

Welcome to the one and only Spiceislander Talkshop.

#21 Jul 17, 2020 8:05 pm

Real Distwalker
Active

Re: BLACK FOLK AND THEIR STUPIDITY AND CORONA

Expat wrote:

If lets say I build a car in Motown, and Chrysler ships all its business to Japan, then for cents on the dollar Chrysler has pulled back the foreskin and screwed it's workers.

Yeah, in exactly the same way Iowa screws all its (potential) nutmeg workers by buying nutmeg from Grenada instead of growing it here in greenhouses.

Your confusion is based on looking at a specific group of people rather than the overall economy.  Labor should be used on areas where the entity has either and absolute or a comparative advantage.  If you do anything else, you are just pissing away wealth.

This is basic international economics and there absolutely nothing controversial about it.  I am not stating my opinion here.  I am repeating what has been pretty much settled in the field for centuries.

The kind of mercantilism you seem to be advocating went out with the Spanish Empire.

Offline

#22 Jul 17, 2020 8:31 pm

Expat
Active

Re: BLACK FOLK AND THEIR STUPIDITY AND CORONA

Sorry dude, but your imaginary nutmeg workers should have done the sensible thing, and migrated to a place they could get employment in a field where there expertise would be utilesed , like your forefathers did.

All you are purporting is that we should watch valid jobs go out the door for a couple of cents per item, to maybe Turkey, where they will be happy for five minutes, until someone realises thet with tax breaks from India they can set up a new factory in India,  and either keep costs down, or reduce them further, until Taiwan flutters its eye lashes, and off goes the company again, and the Oooops, China bless em with billions that need employment will do it for half the price, and yayyyyy pure Capitalism otherwise known as greed shafts everyone on the way.

Offline

#23 Jul 17, 2020 8:56 pm

Real Distwalker
Active

Re: BLACK FOLK AND THEIR STUPIDITY AND CORONA

If the jobs are going to Turkey it's because they belong in Turkey and the people doing those jobs in the US should be doing something more lucrative.   If you are growing nutmeg in Iowa you are an idiot because you could be using your labor to grow corn and making much, much more money.

Seriously, dude.  You are arguing the flat-earther version of economics. It is embarrassing.

Offline

#24 Jul 17, 2020 10:53 pm

Expat
Active

Re: BLACK FOLK AND THEIR STUPIDITY AND CORONA

Do you ever embark on any argument without trying to put people down?  It is a constant theme with anyone who is not an RD sycophant.

You actually have not really addressed any point, simply created straw men and burned them to the ground. But they were YOUR straw men.

Britain WAS an engineering power house, a rock star in the industrial revolution, a leader in science and engineering, with many of our brightest stars in maybe the last 50 years bedazzled by better salaries, and probably career enhancing opportunities in the Good old US of A.  Just like Nurses tend to migrate towards Britain and America from the Philippines at the moment. So they not only exported ther Companies, they exported their high fliers.

The Textile Mills have gone, The coal mines have gone..... yours are going too, despite Trumpeters bullshite promises to the rust belt. The British car manufacturing is basically extinct... OK until Brexit kicks in Japan is propping up those jobs, but those are likely to go. Most heavy industry has gone. Britain once branded a nation of shopkeepers has become just that, probably 80% service industry, just one step up from call centers in Bombay, with just a little flair in the Insurance and Banking sectors which is about to be screwed when outside Europe we become harder to trade with.  Engineering, is almost extinct. Some due to various ineptitude's, like the motorbike industry where if the bike didn't leak oil there was something wrong. The Japanese took our fossil crap away re-engineered it and returned with by cheap and pay through the nose to service it pressed steel framed bikes that swallowed up the market. We asked for that, that was our fault. But much of it was manufacturers out-sourcing their product. What I don't seem to get through to you is that the whole cycle spins down to the lowest common denominator, and ultimately rather like socialism, those that were on the top layer now have to work at the same rates as their foreign competitors, and everyone ends up on a lower pay scale.

I've seen it happen in real time, first hand, not by the work being exported, but by immigrants who had a much lower expectation of living standards, and a push to prosper within their own circles. When the Rolls Royce plant I worked in closed down during the financial collapse I spent some time hustling with both minicab driving, Executive car driving, and Chauffeuring, and there is a hell of a difference between the 3 groups. While Chauffeur services remained pretty much at a premium, the other car services were decimated by the cheap rates the Asian car drivers and firms worked at. Without any bias or prejudice, I can honestly say I saw drivers that had no clue where they were going back before Tom Tom, driving manky cars, charging unrealistically low rates, thereby putting existing car firms out of business. They were frequently not really road worthy cars, and at those rates it would be impossible to eat, and service the car properly. The average existing driver was basically going bankrupt slowly. Two things happened, I diversified, bullied an old hand into partnering up with me and established a business that ultimately lead me to a very well paid job with all the perks and benefits of a financial institution managing their transport needs. The other event was London and several other cities I believe, finally introduced a form of licensing for private hire cars which made it harder for the cowboys to operate.

Yes eventually I made it work for me, but the process I describe is parallel to what happens when you slide off business to cheaper countries.

You cannot indefinitely create jobs and products out of thin air. Combined with computerisation and robots society is going to have to figure out how to pay people not to work, or maybe Bill Gates has the answer, vaccinate them into sterility.

Last edited by Expat (Jul 17, 2020 11:16 pm)

Offline

#25 Jul 17, 2020 11:55 pm

Real Distwalker
Active

Re: BLACK FOLK AND THEIR STUPIDITY AND CORONA

You are either ignoring huge, but distributed, economic gain.  You are focusing on tiny, but easy to see, economic loss.

Take automatic teller machines.  No doubt about it; they put some bank tellers out of work.

On the other hand, they created a whole new industry in their production and management.  That was trivial compared to the manner in which they streamlined banking, took the friction out of financial transactions, put cash in the hands of consumers 24/7 and measurably increased the velocity of money.  Those jobs had to die.  To keep them would be a disaster.

It is easy for Luddites to focus on the narrow pain of the tellers who lost their jobs. Any moron can see that.  It is harder, however, to see the stupendous wealth they added to economies.  For every job they cost, they created 100.  Why focus on the one job lost rather than the 100 gained?  It's easier.

It would be weapons grade idiocy for an advanced economy with highly educated and highly productive workers like the UK to be wasting labor on something like textiles.  Bah!  The UK should be making aircraft engines, medical machines and complex tools.  If they focus on that and let, I dunno, Laotians work textiles the UK can have a thousand times more clothing than if they waste their labor doing it themselves.

Yes, yes.  As in the case of your middle paragraph there are all kinds of sob stories about bank tellers who lost their jobs.  Focus on that rather than on the huge benefit and thousands of new jobs computerized banking creates.  Shipping mundane crap like textiles overseas opens up the UK for much, much, much better, more lucrative and less soul crushing work for the British. 

Trust me.  This is a good thing.  This is the way the world works.  This is the way it has worked for at least 250 years.  It is why we have the global prosperity we do.

Offline

#26 Jul 17, 2020 11:59 pm

Real Distwalker
Active

Re: BLACK FOLK AND THEIR STUPIDITY AND CORONA

By the way, if its jobs you want to preserve and don't care about efficiency, just outlaw diesel excavators and bulldozers on heavy construction jobs.  Make the workers use short-handled shovels.  Thousands of workers would be needed.  Hell, better yet, make them use soup spoons. More jobs yet.

That's the logical end of curtailing trade and tech in order to create or preserve jobs.  It is stupid.

Repeat after me: You cannot improve the economy by restricting trade and commerce.

Offline

#27 Jul 18, 2020 12:08 pm

Slice
Active

Re: BLACK FOLK AND THEIR STUPIDITY AND CORONA

houston wrote:

I hate Chinese junk products that are so widely sold through out the world.
Everything from cheaply made clothing to porous metal materials that swamp the market. Absolutely the poorest quality products not worth the nickle spent on them.
Technology?...no way would I ever purchase a Huawei product.

We are trying to stop buying China's junk.  Recently we discovered that almost 95% of our spices are made in China.  We quickly put an end to it and started buying from America or anywhere else in the  world, not longer China.

Offline

#28 Jul 18, 2020 12:14 pm

Slice
Active

Re: BLACK FOLK AND THEIR STUPIDITY AND CORONA

Real Distwalker wrote:

I want to elaborate....

Let's say that with one unit of labor and capital, Canada can produce 10,000 bushels of wheat.

Let's say that with one unit of labor and capital, Canada can produce 1 bushel of nutmeg (it's expensive to produce nutmeg in Canada!)

Let's say that with one unit of labor and capital, Grenada can produce 100 bushels of nutmeg.

Let's say that with one unit of labor and capital, Grenada can produce 1 bushel of wheat.  (It's expensive to produce wheat in Grenada.


WITHOUT TRADE

Two units of labor and capital in Canada gets them 10,000 bushels of wheat and one bushel of nutmeg

Two units of labor and capital in Grenada gets 100 bushels of nutmeg and 1 bushel of wheat.


WITH TRADE

Two units of labor and capital in Canada gets them 20,000 bushels of wheat of which they can sell a few and buy all the nutmeg they could ever want from Grenada.

Two units of labor and capital gets Grenada 200 bushels of nutmeg of which they can sell two or three and buy all the wheat they can consume.


Obviously trade is much, much better than no trade.


Well, except for Expat who is about to show up and cry fat tears that Canada shipped all its nutmeg producing jobs to Grenada. smile

I felt like ah was in economics class and RD is the teacher.

Offline

#29 Jul 18, 2020 12:20 pm

Slice
Active

Re: BLACK FOLK AND THEIR STUPIDITY AND CORONA

One more thing, Expat, I ent taking sides, but if you get to know ah little bit of RD, it could be very interesting. I kinda know, but ah cant reveal.  RD got plenty, plenty monies.  Ah done not another word.

Offline

#30 Jul 18, 2020 2:56 pm

Expat
Active

Re: BLACK FOLK AND THEIR STUPIDITY AND CORONA

Slice wrote:

One more thing, Expat, I ent taking sides, but if you get to know ah little bit of RD, it could be very interesting. I kinda know, but ah cant reveal.  RD got plenty, plenty monies.  Ah done not another word.

Frankly I would have said you have said too much already. The WWW is not the place to shout about peoples situations. Certainly not other peoples.

Offline

Board footer

Powered by FluxBB