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#1 Apr 21, 2017 7:51 am

Vanni
Member

The Beginning and the End of the Universe

I watched a documentary in two series, from Professor Jim Al-Khalili about the beginning and the end of the Universe. I love astrophysics and I love Jim Al-Khalili, who is brilliant!

And so, there was the eternal question of the big crunch or the scattering and extinction of all suns - light and life in the Universe.

Whichever scenario, a pressing question arises:

We are studying the how. We have found a lot of answers, but all are about the mechanics of Life.

And Life is, in my awareness, about way more than mechanics. I am afraid that the how will fail to make sense without the why.

And possibly, both how and why would fail to make sense without the who. And we may discuss the who - my understanding of it is more of a principle than of anything of religious concept. Though of a self-aware principle. And we are all parts of this principle - all Life is part of it.

If this principle existed before the Big Bang, how could it ever stop to exist?

So, why was the Universe formed? Was there an intention, a purpose?

If yes, it means that, as there is a beginning to this Universe, it is fine for, at least the physical aspect of it to reach an end: it has a sense to be so, and:

we are safe.

This said, for us to follow and participate to the evolution of this Universe, we are meant to reach way, way beyond where we are at now. And we can: we are made to be "at the image of God" - to be solar and to be universal, with all it implies.

Did it need a who at the origin for Creation to happen at all?

And is the end of all matter the end of Life itself?

If we measure everything according to our human senses, as science does for now, then indeed, life is a very short and not very happy meaningless accident.

However, if we reach beyond our senses, things start to take ... a different sense.

I am no astrophysicist. But I know that if the physical aspect of the universe ceases to exist, it does not imply the end of Life itself. Nor the end of us.

I am certain that it needed an intention, possibly a plan or concept at the origin, for the Big Bang to be possible at all.

Which implies that whether Big Bang or Big Crunch - beginning and end of the physical universe - there is something before, and thus we can expect something beyond.

We may speak of "some thing" or "some One" eternal. And consecutively, we, being part of this One, are equally eternal.

Anyway, endlessly interesting topic, as endless as Life Itself smile

I wish you a day, week, month, year, life, an eternity filled with love, joy and happiness.

Last edited by Vanni (Apr 21, 2017 8:02 am)

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#2 Apr 21, 2017 11:52 am

Expat
Member

Re: The Beginning and the End of the Universe

>>If we measure everything according to our human senses, as science does for now, then indeed, life is a very short and not very happy meaningless accident.<<

Which basically is what I have been saying for a long time.

There is also a theory out there... maybe it is mine.... But the Universe is cyclical, no beginning, no middle, no end, just repeated big bangs when the Universe collapses back in on itself.

From the stellar studies being done there are other life supporting planets out there.... even in our singular Galaxy.... far too far away for us to reach in any imaginable time frame never mind one of the trillions of Galaxies beyond our vision range at the moment.... So it could be life which does not have to be as we know it Mr Spock,  could be flourishing all over the place.

From my understanding of current research they are back into the last itty bit of a second after the big bang happened and even up to that itty bitty point there was no benevolent guy with a flowing grey beard sitting in a lazy boy chair overseeing things.

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#3 Apr 21, 2017 1:12 pm

Real Distwalker
Member

Re: The Beginning and the End of the Universe

Expat wrote:

...there was no benevolent guy with a flowing grey beard sitting in a lazy boy chair overseeing things.

If my understanding of God was as circumscribed as yours, I would be an atheist too.

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#4 Apr 21, 2017 2:27 pm

Vanni
Member

Re: The Beginning and the End of the Universe

I think that there are many universes, and thus many Big Bangs and as many resorptions, expansions/manifestations again, etc.

Oh, by the way: into what does it resorb itself ... that no-space-no-time state ...

So, creation and dissolution of creation without purpose? That would be a bit cynical, cause life "down here" is quite cruel! There must be a justification and purpose to it.

And God knows the conditions of living in other places in the Universe - could be even worse.

As well as yet in other places in the Universe, there are lives of such beauty, that we cannot imagine from where we are.

As for journeying from one place to the other: we are still quite primitive in our technology.

I know that we can travel faster than light speed. But it needs certain conditions for that. So it is absolutely possible to reach other galaxies within extremely short times - speaking maybe of seconds.

But God bless! we are not able to do so yet: imagine if we'd export our ignorance to other worlds ... we have more than technological progresses to do, if we want to travel to other places in the universe. And once we'll have done these progresses I'm thinking of, the technology to travel extreme distances will reveal itself to us.

Last edited by Vanni (Apr 21, 2017 2:30 pm)

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#5 Apr 21, 2017 6:52 pm

Expat
Member

Re: The Beginning and the End of the Universe

Maam, you think but don't know.... I don't know but think.

I do not know that there are multiple Universes... doubt it, but any things possible in that area.

God, well I have never seen or heard anything that would take me down that route.  Mankind from the earliest days has been creating Gods, some times whole hosts of them, to handle things ignorance couldn't explain.

As science over the centuries has increased our understanding of the things people claimed were the acts of God slowly but surely God has become redundant.

Many are scared to let go the crutch, and rely on "Faith".  Well, I have to accept my version of existence is a form of faith, but I think exponentially the advances into the minutia of our existence are falling down on my side of the faith scale.

When one person gets saved in an accident or disaster they say God is good... conveniently forgetting the other hundred people who were mangled beyond recognition..... who's family promptly say it was Gods will, and he knows best..... really?

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#6 Apr 21, 2017 7:37 pm

houston
Member

Re: The Beginning and the End of the Universe

Yes, multiple cultures, religions and gods since the dawn of days. Having faith in what ever or who ever is no doubt a positive thing.
The gods do work in mysterious ways.

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#7 Apr 22, 2017 5:44 am

Vanni
Member

Re: The Beginning and the End of the Universe

I take my vision of various universes lightly, yet, I do think that if there is one, there may be others simultaneously. After all, everything comes from no-space-no-time, projected into possibly infinite space and time - or illusion of space and time ... I won't argue around that topic, as I am finding it difficult to figure out when helping myself with my brain - the brain is not too much into infinity, timelessness and spacelessness.

And, as, in 1924, Astronomer Edwin Hubble discovered Andromeda as a distinct galaxy from ours, and that the Milky way is just one of many galaxies in the universe, it may be the same with the universe(s).

But as, with our physical senses and the present scientific instruments serving them, we cannot see beyond our own material universe - not even able to fully reach the extents of it yet, it is still a matter of hypothesis. In yet another astrophysics/quantum physics documentary, multiple universes were mentioned, and it seemed plausible to me: if one universe can exist, what are the limits of Life and Its expressions?

Yes, the usual "God is good" is more often used when the circumstances are happy. But more challenging to feel and use in other circumstances. Yet, if "God is good", may it be in all circumstances? While I was going through a lot - an accumulation since my childhood, combined with ever more cruel experiences: I had the strong feeling that "God hates me". I was so taken by rage! including against "God".

At such an extreme, I did something not at the taste of my instincts, wanting me to close my heart. I instead bypassed my instincts and turned myself toward my heart, spirit and Love - you may call It God - I managed it in rivers of tears of blood to open my heart right when I thought I'd die of pain. I then understood how all the circumstances and people in my life had actually contributed and brought me to reach such an achievement. And I found gratitude for each of them. For me included for having found the resources to make such a choice.

And I then understood that all people in my life, all experiences, were on purpose and meaningful. So, gratitude ensued. Oh, should it ever happen again, I can imagine that I'd go through all these stages again big_smile

Even if I understand that I may still have some illusions, I do not consider myself as living with a crutch. It's got nothing to do with belief. It's got nothing to do with what someone or some organised systems want me to believe. I do not feel threatened of eternal rejection and hell if I question God Him/Her/Itself. So I am quite free in my approach. The only taboo being maybe unrecognised fears within myself and limiting me. Until, these too, dissolve.

It's more coming from my Self: I am certain of the eternity of Life. I am certain of the all-might of Love. Not a brutal, disregarding all-might. A gentle, patient, self-offering Love. And I am strongly feeling that this universal unconditional infinite Love is the stuff of Life. Its Being.

Its origin, Its conclusion in each individual case of whatever challenge and conflict we may be experiencing, even if the time span may go beyond the measure of our short Earthly lives.

Science and many humans approach life through their minds alone. It may be a step from blind belief. But Life is more than just of the mind. The mind will keep us limited to the mechanics, as present day science does. It still does not explain the origins, whether there is a purpose, a design - or even a consciousness at the origin and throughout the manifestations - which, I understand, there is. And without this understanding, pure mechanical understanding and approach of life are meaningless, frustrating, and could be destructive. As we can see it in our world today.

If we want to truly grasp life and make something constructive and fulfilling of it, while mind can assist, but not dictate: we need to involve the quality of energy Life is originating from and made of. Some may call it soul, spirit, heart ...

So, meditation, for example, allows us to get in touch with aspects - or frequency ranges - of life which open a whole new perception and perspective of It.

For a more complete vision of Life, we have to attune to other frequencies through other aspects of ourselves, in order to be able to explore It and live by It - frequencies which are more alive and more at the origin of all manifestation.

For example, total regeneration is possible. It's just a matter of understanding a) that it is indeed possible, and b) how to make it happen. And, the usual mentality of a few pills or interventions while remaining passive in our old frequency/mindset/ways, cannot work: it is about us uplifting ourselves to a level where we can interact with Life in such a way, or where such things even happen spontaneously.

We are reaching a stage of Life, where we are invited to go beyond what we have known until now and believed to be the only - bleak - reality, only - bleak - truth and our only - bleak - abilities.

From what I understand, we have reached all the limits of what we have been used to, and have resigned ourselves to until now. Our range of experience at that level is exhausted, our evolution cannot go further on this tune and needs new conditions - because despite appearances we are ready for it.

Now while the former reality and ways are collapsing, we are being invited to raise ourselves, attune to, and live by higher frequencies, which are not only changing our perception and awareness of Life, but the conditions of Life Itself.

Last edited by Vanni (Apr 22, 2017 7:06 am)

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#8 Apr 22, 2017 2:12 pm

Expat
Member

Re: The Beginning and the End of the Universe

I don't want to disrespect the time and effort you put into expressing your opinions and thoughts with a simple short response, but (oh the but)  all that says is you have an inner perception, an inner belief, and an optimism I could never dream of achieving.

The current hundreds of destroyed bodies in Afghanistan, and Syria, the abject misery of children and refugee families, the discord in Europe, the potential for Nuclear war etc etc etc do not make me think there is ANY real charity, or love for fellow man, except in the dream land of a church service, or  your hopes for humanity.

The World from the earliest days of mankind has been a brutish place of winner take all, and though moderated and rationales behind activities have changed the ongoing brutality remains with absolutely no hope of conflict being resolved.... whether it is with ISIS , Northern Ireland, Nationalism raising it's head in Europe, Self interest in America or sectarian differences in Africa.

The whole mess just spins around and gets spat out in a different form in a different location.

But why should it be any different.

We are animals, a supposedly higher form of animal, but none the less part of a chain leading back to single cells in gloop at the dawn of our history. ALL animals on the earth kill or destroy by there actions. Be it as a carnivore, a vegetarian, or an omnivore, and simply as part of the reproductive process just about every sentient creature fights for survival. We just make it a more complicated process.

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#9 Apr 22, 2017 2:15 pm

Expat
Member

Re: The Beginning and the End of the Universe

Real Distwalker wrote:
Expat wrote:

...there was no benevolent guy with a flowing grey beard sitting in a lazy boy chair overseeing things.

If my understanding of God was as circumscribed as yours, I would be an atheist too.

THAT is the predominant view of those who believe. God is all, God is everywhere, and God controls everything. Oh nearly forgot, God loves us all. As he watches barrel bombs crashing down on hospitals.

If you recall.... I do not believe.... well not in God anyway.

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#10 Apr 22, 2017 2:32 pm

Real Distwalker
Member

Re: The Beginning and the End of the Universe

Expat wrote:

THAT is the predominant view of those who believe.

Then we agree.  I don't believe in that God either.

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