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#21 Jul 06, 2017 9:47 am

New Historian
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Re: I absolutely love England and all things English...

"For the record, there is a name for this "guilty blood" theory of yours: Racism."

Bull. By your argument, no country should have to pay the debts or reparations of its former acts, once that former generation dies out. So why is Germany still paying reparations to Israel? Why does America still "support" the reservations? Sorry dude, you don't get a free pass so easy. The abysmal state of Haiti today can be directly linked to the actions of France in the not-so-long past, remember that Haiti was still paying "reverse reparations" to France as recently as 1947 - we can count the amount that is due - then add inflation, plus-plus.

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#22 Jul 06, 2017 10:10 am

Real Distwalker
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Re: I absolutely love England and all things English...

New Historian wrote:

Bull. By your argument, no country should have to pay the debts or reparations of its former acts, once that former generation dies out.

I haven't made that argument at all.  I am arguing that I bear no personal guilt for anything that I had nothing to do with. 

This whole thing started when Calypso said to me something like, "you enslaved us."   That is ridiculous.  I have never enslaved anyone and she was never enslaved.  Her comment was absurd on its face.

I have no guilt for what my ancestors did or didn't do.  Compounding that fact is that my ancestors had absolutely, positively nothing to do with the Atlantic slave trade.

Now, I am willing to consider reparations on a case-by-case basis.  It does get complicated as time goes on, however.  It seems pretty ridiculous to argue, for example, that my children have some kind of a personal debt to, say, Obama's daughters.

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#23 Jul 06, 2017 10:31 am

New Historian
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Re: I absolutely love England and all things English...

Now, I am willing to consider reparations on a case-by-case basis.  It does get complicated as time goes on, however.  It seems pretty ridiculous to argue, for example, that my children have some kind of a personal debt to, say, Obama's daughters.

Fair comment, but it's not personal, it is on a much broader canvas than that. "You" may not bear any personal guilt, but the collective "you" can: the nation, the people. This is where people go wrong on the issue of reparations or collective guilt for past wrongs: you have to lift your head above the parapet, to see the bigger picture. And my contention is that, in this case, "La Mere France" has a collective debt to Haiti. Among others!

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#24 Jul 06, 2017 11:32 am

Slice
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Re: I absolutely love England and all things English...

So I ent adding, only saying you both have very  valid points.

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#25 Jul 06, 2017 11:35 am

Slice
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Re: I absolutely love England and all things English...

Real Distwalker wrote:

The portions of Eastern Europe from which my ancestors came were not involved in the slave trade.  Furthermore, my ancestors were poor peasants.  Before that they were serfs in a world of feudalism. 

In fact, they were Slavs.  The English word "slave" derives from the word "Slav" because the Slavic people were enslaved by the Muslims of Spain in the medieval period.

Neither my ancestors or I bear any guilt for slavery.

This just do not feel and sound right, you as ah White man bears no guilt, but me ah African-Grenadian bears some kinda guilt.  This is very very strange.

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#26 Jul 06, 2017 11:47 am

Real Distwalker
Active

Re: I absolutely love England and all things English...

Neither one of us bears any personal guilt, Slice.

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#27 Jul 06, 2017 12:09 pm

Slice
Active

Re: I absolutely love England and all things English...

Man you kinda have it easy.  See you are white, and folks thought that all White folks have some kinda responsibility for slavery, even doh that is not the case.   Me on the other hand never ever thought that my family owned slaves.  That makes me rethink everything I said and I thought I knew about slavery. Everything was pointing to slave ownership,  but I ignored it.  I will be alright, but this SHEET Stings like hell.

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#28 Jul 06, 2017 12:13 pm

Silkee
Active

Re: I absolutely love England and all things English...

Somebody jooking a mybone nest here....lol
Lets deal with today. Topics  to avoid are politics,religion,sex.
My paternal side were also European peasant immigrants fleeing war in 1900.
They had nothing to do with slavery and in fact were discriminated against there and also here.
Years ago,while visiting Georgia I was totally discriminated against because I was clearly a "yankee"
from the north.,Hellooooooo,I am the daughter of immigrants decades after the civil war.
So everyone has their own definitions,beliefs,versions etc.
My Ancestors owned slaves in Grenada. So how  does that figure in my make up,eh?

Last edited by Silkee (Jul 06, 2017 12:15 pm)

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#29 Jul 06, 2017 12:25 pm

Real Distwalker
Active

Re: I absolutely love England and all things English...

New Historian wrote:

"You" may not bear any personal guilt, but the collective "you" can: the nation, the people.

I don't think that contradicts my argument that "blood guilt" is racism.  The responsibility for reparations as you describe has nothing to do with blood and everything to do with association.  If France has a responsibility to Haiti and I become a French citizen, then as a citizen of France I share that responsibility even though I have not a drop of French blood in my body.

Likewise, I don't think that Canadians in Quebec of French ancestry share in France's debt to Haiti due to nothing more the flavor of hemoglobin that flows through their veins.

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#30 Jul 06, 2017 2:31 pm

New Historian
Active

Re: I absolutely love England and all things English...

Yes, correct. I'm not saying every white person has a guilt due to slavery, but some nations do. That said, any white person that wants to stand me a round of drinks and say sorry mate, you're welcome!

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