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#1 Nov 29, 2016 4:19 pm

Real Distwalker
Member

On this date in 1781: The Zong Massacre

The Zong massacre was the mass murder of 133 African slaves by the crew of the slave ship Zong in the days following 29 November 1781. The Gregson slave-trading syndicate, based in Liverpool, owned the ship and sailed her in the Atlantic slave trade. As was common business practice, they had taken out insurance on the lives of the slaves as cargo. When the ship ran low on potable water following navigational mistakes, the crew threw slaves overboard into the sea to drown, partly in order to ensure the survival of the rest of the ship's passengers, and in part to cash in on the insurance on the slaves, thus not losing money on the slaves who would have died from the lack of drinking water.

After the slave ship reached port at Black River, Jamaica, Zong's owners made a claim to their insurers for the loss of the slaves. When the insurers refused to pay, the resulting court cases (Gregson v Gilbert (1783) 3 Doug. KB 232) held that in some circumstances, the deliberate killing of slaves was legal and that insurers could be required to pay for the slaves' deaths. The judge, Lord Chief Justice, the Earl of Mansfield, ruled against the syndicate owners in this case, due to new evidence being introduced suggesting the captain and crew were at fault.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zong_massacre

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#2 Dec 04, 2016 7:41 am

Calypso
Member

Re: On this date in 1781: The Zong Massacre

RD, don't you Americans kill each other for insurance money all the time? Let's face it, When Europe conquered Africa you taught us something contrary to our forefathers: money is the most important resource. You see, Africans have always known that the most important resource is a human life!

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#3 Dec 07, 2016 9:46 pm

Real Distwalker
Member

Re: On this date in 1781: The Zong Massacre

Calypso wrote:

RD, don't you Americans kill each other for insurance money all the time? Let's face it, When Europe conquered Africa you taught us something contrary to our forefathers: money is the most important resource. You see, Africans have always known that the most important resource is a human life!

So we are trolling each other, huh?  Yeah, it's kind of boring around here.  I get it.  It is perfectly evident that Africans don't care about money, that's for sure. big_smile

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#4 Dec 08, 2016 7:49 pm

Calypso
Member

Re: On this date in 1781: The Zong Massacre

Real Distwalker wrote:
Calypso wrote:

RD, don't you Americans kill each other for insurance money all the time? Let's face it, When Europe conquered Africa you taught us something contrary to our forefathers: money is the most important resource. You see, Africans have always known that the most important resource is a human life!



So we are trolling each other, huh?  Yeah, it's kind of boring around here.  I get it.  It is perfectly evident that Africans don't care about money, that's for sure. big_smile



Yes, the poverty and dependency in our communities suggest that we don't care about money. But we do. When you conquered us you stagnated us and wiped out contribution to history. We have never been a greedy  or insecure group of people like you white men. We have never displayed sexual perversion or exhibited sociopathic tendencies. We liked wealth but not at the expense of other people's lives. We had a "primitive" culture. Sure it never evolved or advanced as your European cultures but it had it sense of order and hierarchy.  You looked down upon it and raped it with brutality. So-called civilization is so  animalistic!

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#5 Dec 08, 2016 9:49 pm

Real Distwalker
Member

Re: On this date in 1781: The Zong Massacre

Congratulations.

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#6 Dec 09, 2016 3:02 am

Calypso
Member

Re: On this date in 1781: The Zong Massacre

Calypso wrote:
Real Distwalker wrote:
Calypso wrote:

RD, don't you Americans kill each other for insurance money all the time? Let's face it, When Europe conquered Africa you taught us something contrary to our forefathers: money is the most important resource. You see, Africans have always known that the most important resource is a human life!



So we are trolling each other, huh?  Yeah, it's kind of boring around here.  I get it.  It is perfectly evident that Africans don't care about money, that's for sure. big_smile



Yes, the poverty and dependency in our communities suggest that we don't care about money. But we do. When you conquered us you stagnated us and wiped out contribution to history. We have never been a greedy  or insecure group of people like you white men. We have never displayed sexual perversion or exhibited sociopathic tendencies. We liked wealth but not at the expense of other people's lives. We had a "primitive" culture. Sure it never evolved or advanced as your European cultures but it had it sense of order and hierarchy.  You looked down upon it and raped it with brutality. So-called civilization is so  animalistic!




"There was an Indian, who had known no change,
Who strayed content along a sunlit beach
Gathering shells. He heard a sudden strange
Commingled noise: looked up; and gasped for speech.
For in the bay, where nothing was before,
Moved on the sea, by magic, huge canoes
With bellying cloths on poles, and not one oar,
And fluttering coloured signs and clambering crews.
And he, in fear, this naked man alone,
His fallen hands forgetting all their shells,
His lips gone pale, knelt low behind a stone,
And stared, and saw, and did not understand.........."

Don't be a son-of-a-bitch RD and ignore the positive aspect in my comment.  Living a simple life without greed like Native American, African and other "primitive" cultures was not about stagnation. The European's thirst for greed is what categorized it that way. Simplistic living doesn't not mean unhappiness, . The excerpt from Sir John Squire's poem, THERE WAS AN INDIAN, talks of how life was simple and happy before the coming of Columbus.  'They were naked but they knew no shame.' They weren't starving of food, dignity and integrity for they were rich in those aspects. The European had none of those traits; only a thirst to conquer, plunder and rape. Animals and whoremongers they were. They are two different cultures and cannot be compared. Over the years as we, the conquered, tried to parallel ours lives to your values we've failed. Those who were successful and exuded superior intelligence were killed by you or erased from your history books. You blasted barbarians! We continued to survive. I cannot say that I like our financial station in life among you but we remain foolish due a change in values.

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#7 Dec 09, 2016 2:29 pm

Slice
Member

Re: On this date in 1781: The Zong Massacre

Calypso, hold on ah have to respond, but time is against me right now, ah just peeping.  I promise I will doh.

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#8 Dec 09, 2016 3:25 pm

gripe
Member

Re: On this date in 1781: The Zong Massacre

I read RD's lead post and given the discussion that has ensued, I am interested in knowing what was the reason for his lead post. It could be merely for the anniversary value of the event. However, because the account of the Zong Massacre highlights such harsh realities of the evil deeds of the slave owners, I cannot fault Calypso for her comments. We cannot escape the inhumanity of the slave owners who saw money every time they saw Black folks whom they made into slaves to gain the money for which the slave owners identified the slaves. I used the words "for which" because the slave owners did not see the enslaved Blacks as human beings but only as a means to make money through their exploitation, even murder!

This got to me: "the crew threw slaves overboard into the sea to drown, partly in order to ensure the survival of the rest of the ship's passengers, and in part to cash in on the insurance on the slaves, thus not losing money on the slaves who would have died from the lack of drinking water." Yes, Calypso, that is inhumanity. To think that the slaves "would have died from the lack of drinking water" yet the slave owners hurried up their deaths anyway!

I take a slightly different angle to further highlight the slave owners' murderous actions: who knows, the slaves may have survived the water shortage problem! Therefore, by throwing them over board to their deaths, the slave owners' evil ways were magnified!   

Getting back to my question about the reason, beyond the anniversary value, for the lead post, I am also interested in the decision from Lord Chief Justice Mansfield. I may find the case and have a read.

Last edited by gripe (Dec 09, 2016 3:26 pm)

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#9 Dec 09, 2016 6:34 pm

Calypso
Member

Re: On this date in 1781: The Zong Massacre

Gripe, continue to read about Mansfield here.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dido_Elizabeth_Belle

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#10 Dec 09, 2016 8:50 pm

Real Distwalker
Member

Re: On this date in 1781: The Zong Massacre

gripe wrote:

I read RD's lead post and given the discussion that has ensued, I am interested in knowing what was the reason for his lead post.


I always read the Wikipedia "This day in history" page.  I saw this horrific event, thought it was interesting, remembered there is a History topic on this site and decided to share it.  That's it.

THat's when Calypso showed up and tried to make the case that my race makes me greedy and evil.  I didn't feel like going down that path so I didn't.

Nothing more to it than that.

Last edited by Real Distwalker (Dec 09, 2016 8:51 pm)

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