You are not logged in.

Announcement

Welcome to the Spiceislander Talkshop. We have a new look and new features. Have a look around. The site remains Grenadian owned and hosted in the United States.

#21 Aug 09, 2017 5:26 am

Vanni
Active

Re: LBGT Military acceptance.

But then, how can you figure out mental distortion/disease in apparently normal people? Cause they are there. Some with from mild to serious dysfunctions among them just have learned how to appear normal and, contrarily to the transgenders who opted for surgical body change, have no external sign to allow others to recognise that there is an issue - if we consider that gender transforming surgery and other treatments are an issue.

While I understand that there can be a vast dilemma for some about their gender, I am ill at ease about preferring violence to one's own body - which a surgical sex change is, with some lifelong consequences, for example as far as I know for those who changed to female, as the opening needs constant reopening. Rather than taking the opportunity to, OK choose the gender the person feels better in, but at the same time put up with what nature gave him/her physically.

It's an important psychological gesture, which can appear as more difficult than the violence of surgery, but by combining the gender choice with an approach of nonviolence and peace: could there be way better long term psychological and spiritual consequences?

How far and how many of us do realise that this life reaches way beyond the short Earthly lifespan, and is about developing a fundamental attitude and relationship to Life? And that each situation, each person met, are our opportunities.

It may be experienced as a violence initially to not be born in the gender someone is feeling well with. But, as in my understanding of life, nothing is by chance: is this at the same time the person's own challenge to him/herself to find the best combination of opting for the preferred gender while avoiding to resort to even more violence?

The question is thus: how much of what is a given - our body - is better accepted rather than (violently) fought? What approach is the optimal one to bring us what we came, exactly in such circumstances, to develop of our relationship to Life? Of course, I am not being affected by the question, so I remain humble and can imagine that it is not as simple/istic.

So, having ever more technology at disposition, to the extreme: how far should someone feel he/she can go? Freedom is not just about choosing from what is at disposition, but also choosing to not use some of what is at disposition.

Science - and lucrative business in particular - has the means to change someone into someone else. Do they really care and feel compassionate about the person's plea, or is it, more cynically, and sometimes unconsciously, for them a golden source of income? Even within our own gender, some plastic surgery reaches beyond simple rejuvenation.

In a world which is making a U-turn toward wisdom over power, but until now has desperately attempted to develop power over wisdom - bound to fail - breaking away from all limits to excess, sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse, often spiritually adrift, with ever more extremes being considered as normal, it is maybe meant to be as our opportunity: it points toward opening our heart and mind, as much as it points toward our maturing into adults.

To selectively trust, yes, but to take our responsibility and give up trusting blindly and exclusively - whether politicians, scientists, religious intermediates, media or other. To turn toward and honour our inner Spiritual Guidance - our direct relationship to the Divine, to Life. To open up our hearts without limits nor judgment, but with the spiritual awareness of what is harmful and what is loving and supporting the latter. And to find the right combination between Inner Guidance and outer support from genuine and well intentioned, wise and competent people.

We are being called to find inspiration and guidance to choose what is the less violent, the less harmful, the more respectful of the Sanctity of Life, the more loving.

Last edited by Vanni (Aug 09, 2017 7:51 am)

Offline

#22 Aug 09, 2017 7:14 pm

Expat
Active

Re: LBGT Military acceptance.

Vanni wrote:

But then, how can you figure out mental distortion/disease in apparently normal people? Cause they are there. Some with from mild to serious dysfunctions among them just have learned how to appear normal and, contrarily to the transgenders who opted for surgical body change, have no external sign to allow others to recognise that there is an issue - if we consider that gender transforming surgery and other treatments are an issue.

While I understand that there can be a vast dilemma for some about their gender, I am ill at ease about preferring violence to one's own body - which a surgical sex change is, with some lifelong consequences, for example as far as I know for those who changed to female, as the opening needs constant reopening. Rather than taking the opportunity to, OK choose the gender the person feels better in, but at the same time put up with what nature gave him/her physically.

It's an important psychological gesture, which can appear as more difficult than the violence of surgery, but by combining the gender choice with an approach of nonviolence and peace: could there be way better long term psychological and spiritual consequences?

How far and how many of us do realise that this life reaches way beyond the short Earthly lifespan, and is about developing a fundamental attitude and relationship to Life? And that each situation, each person met, are our opportunities.

It may be experienced as a violence initially to not be born in the gender someone is feeling well with. But, as in my understanding of life, nothing is by chance: is this at the same time the person's own challenge to him/herself to find the best combination of opting for the preferred gender while avoiding to resort to even more violence?

The question is thus: how much of what is a given - our body - is better accepted rather than (violently) fought? What approach is the optimal one to bring us what we came, exactly in such circumstances, to develop of our relationship to Life? Of course, I am not being affected by the question, so I remain humble and can imagine that it is not as simple/istic.

So, having ever more technology at disposition, to the extreme: how far should someone feel he/she can go? Freedom is not just about choosing from what is at disposition, but also choosing to not use some of what is at disposition.

Science - and lucrative business in particular - has the means to change someone into someone else. Do they really care and feel compassionate about the person's plea, or is it, more cynically, and sometimes unconsciously, for them a golden source of income? Even within our own gender, some plastic surgery reaches beyond simple rejuvenation.

In a world which is making a U-turn toward wisdom over power, but until now has desperately attempted to develop power over wisdom - bound to fail - breaking away from all limits to excess, sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse, often spiritually adrift, with ever more extremes being considered as normal, it is maybe meant to be as our opportunity: it points toward opening our heart and mind, as much as it points toward our maturing into adults.

To selectively trust, yes, but to take our responsibility and give up trusting blindly and exclusively - whether politicians, scientists, religious intermediates, media or other. To turn toward and honour our inner Spiritual Guidance - our direct relationship to the Divine, to Life. To open up our hearts without limits nor judgment, but with the spiritual awareness of what is harmful and what is loving and supporting the latter. And to find the right combination between Inner Guidance and outer support from genuine and well intentioned, wise and competent people.

We are being called to find inspiration and guidance to choose what is the less violent, the less harmful, the more respectful of the Sanctity of Life, the more loving.


>>It may be experienced as a violence initially to not be born in the gender someone is feeling well with. But, as in my understanding of life, nothing is by chance: is this at the same time the person's own challenge to him/herself to find the best combination of opting for the preferred gender while avoiding to resort to even more violence?<<

So, you are almost sitting in the camp where experts tried to reassign by psychobable Gays because they could "choose" to be straight if they tried hard enough.

I would guess if you needed a mastectomy because of cancer, or a Hysterectomy because of severe fibroids you wouldn't take the "violent" option.  Phoooey.

These poor buggers live in a World of hate, seemingly almost everyone around them, and then their own self loathing..... and we live in a medically advanced enough age to do an elastoplast repair... yet you think it is violent.  Sheesh.

Last edited by Expat (Aug 09, 2017 7:15 pm)

Offline

#23 Aug 10, 2017 12:57 pm

Vanni
Active

Re: LBGT Military acceptance.

Oh Expat, are you bored?

What a tone ...

You can guess what you want, I apparently hit a sensitive spot of yours. Others may have understood it differently, and drawn different conclusions.

I always defended homosexuals, transgenders & co. And I keep defending them. Just was wondering about some aspects, with long term implications, like having to regularly re-open the surgically transformed male-to-female organ, if I am well informed.

And yes, I maintain:

Sometimes, the challenge is not where we believe it is.

Throughout our experiences, in all their varieties, we are facing the same fundamental questions.

Violence is possibly the major issue in our humanity. Sometimes it's life-saving. Sometimes, it's deadly. To me it's a constant question. This is why I am addressing it.

Each of us has to find the best path, and it's not an easy thing - and I won't judge.

Last edited by Vanni (Aug 10, 2017 1:48 pm)

Offline

#24 Aug 10, 2017 4:53 pm

Expat
Active

Re: LBGT Military acceptance.

Differer conclusions?   such as?

Offline

#25 Aug 11, 2017 4:34 pm

Vanni
Active

Re: LBGT Military acceptance.

Why bother if you can't figure out Expat? Let's not drag this further.

My intentions are really from my heart, for whoever knows or/and understands me.

And if this is not how it comes across to you or someone else: it's not about me, but about the persons who misunderstand and assume rather than asking questions. I mean, a genuine, open-hearted and constructive discussion is lead on a different tone. So why should I try to defend myself and get into a struggle?

Not worth it, nor fair for either of us. My wish is to nurture the positive. We have really better to do than to project our own misunderstanding of each other. There is so much good work to do together by building a world worthy of the better in us. It's urgent.

Have yourself a wonderful evening Expat smile (edited for a failed smilie - so let me take the opportunity of adding another one)

smile

Last edited by Vanni (Aug 11, 2017 4:36 pm)

Offline

#26 Aug 12, 2017 7:06 am

Vanni
Active

Re: LBGT Military acceptance.

Now that things settled down, Expat, I wish to tell you that I appreciate that you open your heart to what some preach of rejection in the name of a misunderstood God.

We are at a point in our humanity now, where the only option for our change for the better is to go heart centred.

And any step into this direction is welcome! May I dare to say: I am feeling, by God It/Him/Herself?

If we start opening and involving our heart, it brings with it everything else where we were keeping it out.

Extending our heart limitlessly, unconditionally to all living creatures and all pleas.

To cite a few examples:

We vehemently - and justly - condemn slavery. But how do we treat animals? You know, those we call food? Those we opportunistically consider as inferior. Do we actually have rights on them, or are we, with our human power, meant to care for them? Of course, not everyone has an option for opting for a vegetarian diet, like those who live in places where they cannot cultivate crops, for example.

And how about our legal system of punishment and further harm and self-gratification through vindication? Something we call justice. Where we still enjoy it to "give it back" in the name of a spiritually ignorant, and surely not heart-centred nor wisdom-lead law, rather than offering opportunities for healing. Hastily avoiding to consider that, at the origin of a crime is a deformation, a terrible wound - a missing part of the soul. To which we add further mutilation with our present attitude and system of punishment & death penalty.

Do I also need to add, that I consider that we need facilities to keep dangerous and crime-prone people enclosed and under control! But may we offer them healing through an as gentle and constructive as possible opportunity for them to face the consequences of their actions, which leads them to facing themselves and their attitudes. Rather than generating further harm, violence and distress.

There are many more such issues/opportunities - all with the same implication:

our heart involvement - or unconditional universal love.

Being humane.

So, we are on our way, and I do not know its length, but I am comforted to see that we have started to take the first steps toward a Brotherhood of Life.

Wishing each of you a wonderful weekend smile

Last edited by Vanni (Aug 12, 2017 7:37 am)

Offline

#27 Aug 12, 2017 7:50 pm

Expat
Active

Re: LBGT Military acceptance.

Vanni wrote:

Now that things settled down, Expat, I wish to tell you that I appreciate that you open your heart to what some preach of rejection in the name of a misunderstood God.

We are at a point in our humanity now, where the only option for our change for the better is to go heart centred.

And any step into this direction is welcome! May I dare to say: I am feeling, by God It/Him/Herself?

If we start opening and involving our heart, it brings with it everything else where we were keeping it out.

Extending our heart limitlessly, unconditionally to all living creatures and all pleas.

To cite a few examples:

We vehemently - and justly - condemn slavery. But how do we treat animals? You know, those we call food? Those we opportunistically consider as inferior. Do we actually have rights on them, or are we, with our human power, meant to care for them? Of course, not everyone has an option for opting for a vegetarian diet, like those who live in places where they cannot cultivate crops, for example.

And how about our legal system of punishment and further harm and self-gratification through vindication? Something we call justice. Where we still enjoy it to "give it back" in the name of a spiritually ignorant, and surely not heart-centred nor wisdom-lead law, rather than offering opportunities for healing. Hastily avoiding to consider that, at the origin of a crime is a deformation, a terrible wound - a missing part of the soul. To which we add further mutilation with our present attitude and system of punishment & death penalty.

Do I also need to add, that I consider that we need facilities to keep dangerous and crime-prone people enclosed and under control! But may we offer them healing through an as gentle and constructive as possible opportunity for them to face the consequences of their actions, which leads them to facing themselves and their attitudes. Rather than generating further harm, violence and distress.

There are many more such issues/opportunities - all with the same implication:

our heart involvement - or unconditional universal love.

Being humane.

So, we are on our way, and I do not know its length, but I am comforted to see that we have started to take the first steps toward a Brotherhood of Life.

Wishing each of you a wonderful weekend smile

What the frances has all that drivel got to do with some poor bugger wanting/needing Gender reassignment? Which despite all your waffling about being humane, even bringing in animal husbandry?  God knows why, you still haven't explained the  term violence with reference to surgery when a person is either experiencing actual violence, or is in a violent self doubt due to looking down and seeing the wrong appendage. The cause of many suicides.

I really think you should ease up on the whacky backy it is tripping you too much.

Offline

#28 Aug 13, 2017 10:23 am

Vanni
Active

Re: LBGT Military acceptance.

You're right Expat, I went beyond the specific question. That's how I function, though, whenever I am being faced with a challenge. I cannot ignore the fundamentals, so it always goes beyond the mere issue itself.

It's got to be everyone's own choice to go for surgery. Would I have a friend who needs support with this, I obviously would support him/her whatever his/her choice. I would just initially check all aspects I am aware of, with the assistance of this friend, as well as those of the experts who know all the consequences, for whatever I cannot personally know of it.

Ultimately it's all about a fine tuning of violence: which one can relieve from a worse one? Sometimes surgery is the answer. Sometimes another approach is it. And the person concerned is the one who knows best.


Edited:

To conclude:

To me, there is no such thing as bad luck, but an appointment from a part of us and purpose of which we are most often ignorant during this physical life. The solution is about reaching the real origin of the challenge, as we'll be meeting the same situation until ... In this present case, surgery is one of the solutions. There are other routes. I leave it up respectfully to the person concerned.

Last edited by Vanni (Aug 13, 2017 2:14 pm)

Offline

Board footer

Powered by FluxBB