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#11 Feb 05, 2020 12:52 pm

gripe
Active

Re: Just the last 20 alphabetical names of the Revo detainees

First, NH, I am hearing pure, unadulterated emotions being spewed by you about the (admitted) excesses of the Revolution. Again, I have not denied that there wee problems during that period. However, your descriptions of what happened is really very disturbing.

Second, you state that you are not being objective about what you write. Yet, amazingly, you seem to believe that your comments must be considered reasonable and fair. That cannot be; your comments appear tainted with a huge dose of vengefulness seething underneath. That should not be what a proper analysis of the Revolutionary period at home should entail. Also, your comments are not much cushioned by your admission that "I was very present in Grenada in the years following the Revolution and got many many first hand accounts of what transpired during that time." Have you factored in any biases from those with whom you may have spoken? I lived approximately the first two years of the Revolution and in some ways saw both its genesis and, as well, some questionable activities start to take root before I left home. Still, I never came to the very harsh conclusions that you have taken as an acolyte for portraying the revolutionary period as being ALL chaotic, murderous and everything negative.

Third, what proof do you have that "Per capita, Grenada was the most militarized country on earth"? Here, too, I urge you to be careful with your statements even though you have rejected that responsible approach to public discourse.

Fourth, no one can argue, reasonably, that 578 imprisoned fellow Grenadians was a good Revolutionary tactic or policy. Instead, it was a major contradiction for a government that espoused a radical move away from the predecessor administration of Eric Gairy whose abuse of Grenadians was partly the impetus for the Revolution. That revolutionary-era contradiction is most highlighted by the arrests and imprisonment of both Teddy Victor and Alister Hughes since they were so much a part of the struggle against Gairy.

Fifth, NH, is my effort to understand why you feel that you are free to make whatever decisions you wish, say what you want, not be objective, be "unrepentant" and yet refuse to see that the Revolutionary leaders were, like you, also human beings with views of their own that led them to make some outrageous decisions that affected our fellow Grenadians? I suspect that one argument is that we, as mere individuals, can have our frailties and shortcomings and still freely follow them in our daily interactions with others, even if we may cause problems in the process. The argument would continue that when individuals act together as a government, representing its people, those individuals are NOT, forever and a day, allowed to make mistakes. That may be a good starting point to try to assess what happened at home during the Revolution. Yet, we all know that the individual impulse to make mistakes is ever-present. So, we have to be forgiving when those mistakes occur -- some horrible, some baffling -- both if the actor is the individual acting on his/her own, or within a group as a government.

Sixth, NH, my mantra is simple: be fair, be human, and try to correct our wrongs as much as possible with an eye towards being better individuals and governments as well.

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#12 Feb 05, 2020 6:43 pm

New Historian
Active

Re: Just the last 20 alphabetical names of the Revo detainees

gripe wrote:

First, NH, I am hearing pure, unadulterated emotions being spewed by you about the (admitted) excesses of the Revolution. Again, I have not denied that there wee problems during that period. However, your descriptions of what happened is really very disturbing.

Second, you state that you are not being objective about what you write. Yet, amazingly, you seem to believe that your comments must be considered reasonable and fair. That cannot be; your comments appear tainted with a huge dose of vengefulness seething underneath. That should not be what a proper analysis of the Revolutionary period at home should entail. Also, your comments are not much cushioned by your admission that "I was very present in Grenada in the years following the Revolution and got many many first hand accounts of what transpired during that time." Have you factored in any biases from those with whom you may have spoken? I lived approximately the first two years of the Revolution and in some ways saw both its genesis and, as well, some questionable activities start to take root before I left home. Still, I never came to the very harsh conclusions that you have taken as an acolyte for portraying the revolutionary period as being ALL chaotic, murderous and everything negative.

Third, what proof do you have that "Per capita, Grenada was the most militarized country on earth"? Here, too, I urge you to be careful with your statements even though you have rejected that responsible approach to public discourse.

Fourth, no one can argue, reasonably, that 578 imprisoned fellow Grenadians was a good Revolutionary tactic or policy. Instead, it was a major contradiction for a government that espoused a radical move away from the predecessor administration of Eric Gairy whose abuse of Grenadians was partly the impetus for the Revolution. That revolutionary-era contradiction is most highlighted by the arrests and imprisonment of both Teddy Victor and Alister Hughes since they were so much a part of the struggle against Gairy.

Fifth, NH, is my effort to understand why you feel that you are free to make whatever decisions you wish, say what you want, not be objective, be "unrepentant" and yet refuse to see that the Revolutionary leaders were, like you, also human beings with views of their own that led them to make some outrageous decisions that affected our fellow Grenadians? I suspect that one argument is that we, as mere individuals, can have our frailties and shortcomings and still freely follow them in our daily interactions with others, even if we may cause problems in the process. The argument would continue that when individuals act together as a government, representing its people, those individuals are NOT, forever and a day, allowed to make mistakes. That may be a good starting point to try to assess what happened at home during the Revolution. Yet, we all know that the individual impulse to make mistakes is ever-present. So, we have to be forgiving when those mistakes occur -- some horrible, some baffling -- both if the actor is the individual acting on his/her own, or within a group as a government.

Sixth, NH, my mantra is simple: be fair, be human, and try to correct our wrongs as much as possible with an eye towards being better individuals and governments as well.

“you seem to believe that your comments must be considered reasonable and fair” – no I don’t, I never said that. I said that my comments are NOT objective, don’t you get it?

“your comments appear tainted with a huge dose of vengefulness seething underneath” – not in the least, I have or had nothing personal in the whole Revo saga, my views are formed entirely by speaking with others, who were there, who are much more informed that I.

“Have you factored in any biases from those with whom you may have spoken?” – of course I did, I speak to many people who were/are Revo diehards, including my cousins. I take in all sides, and form my own opinions.

“their own that led them to make some outrageous decisions that affected our fellow Grenadians” – oh, you mean decisions like: Imprisoning AT LEAST 578 people in less than 4 years? Subjecting many of them to torture? Putting Bishop et al against the wall at the Fort and mowing them down? Killing untold other people at the Fort that day? Dynamiting the bodies and treating them worse than dead dogs, and to this day not telling their still grieving families what became of the remains? Et cetera et cetera?

Like I said: when I was young, naive and outside of Grenada, it was easy to support the Revo, yay yay, handsome charismatic Maurice! But, as you grow older, as you learn more, your views are SUPPOSED to change, not so? When was the last time you were in Grenada? You want to take us back to that time? Please, never.

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#13 Feb 06, 2020 10:14 am

New Historian
Active

Re: Just the last 20 alphabetical names of the Revo detainees

"Third, what proof do you have that "Per capita, Grenada was the most militarized country on earth"? Here, too, I urge you to be careful with your statements even though you have rejected that responsible approach to public discourse."

https://wwiiafterwwii.wordpress.com/201 … countered/

See for yourself. Sure, every little Caribbean island needs weaponry of this sort, absolutely essential! You know the bad things about guns? They don't rot, they don't spoil, and they don't go away. Oh and they kill too.

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#14 Feb 06, 2020 2:16 pm

Expat
Active

Re: Just the last 20 alphabetical names of the Revo detainees

There seemed to be an almost derogatory opinion on the WW11 Lee Enfields, being obsolete etc.

Having shot them out to 1000 yds, for me they still work, although single bolt action. So long as you've got the right calibre ammo available and the guy on the blunt end is trained, you can turn out a pretty effective kill zone. Perhaps more suited to the skilled shooter than the semi auto spray guns, but then those tend to be more suppressing fire than picking off targets.

You do what the sergeant and his superiors tell you to do. But me, I'm a dropper, not a sprayer. As many deceased headshot chickens would attest had they not already passed through the pot.

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