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#11 Nov 08, 2020 12:03 am

Real Distwalker
Active

Re: Maybe the best election outcome of my lifetime

Look, it is a continent wide republic.  People in Nebraska and Wyoming don't wish to be ruled over by population centers in New York and California a thousand miles away.  Dozens of self-rule movements you have supported should have taught you that, NH.  People don't want to be ruled by bureaucrats in a distant capital city a thousand miles away.

So we have 50 state governments.   Each state has autonomy to be what they want to be.  Montana is different from Connecticut.  Alaska is different from New Jersey.

I know you think that it is wacky to not just let the 29 million people in California totally overwhelm and swamp the will of the half million people in Wyoming but the American Revolution, the Grenadian independence movement, Brexit and a score of similar situations should have showed you by now that ruling people from afar won't work.  It just won't.

That's why the US has the system it has.  So the people of Utah can do their thing and the people of Massachusetts theirs.

It's not a lame defense and I think that, in your heart of hearts, you get it.

Last edited by Real Distwalker (Nov 08, 2020 12:04 am)

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#12 Nov 08, 2020 8:18 am

Slice
Active

Re: Maybe the best election outcome of my lifetime

I did not realize, he could run again in four years.  If he is not locked up, ah bet he running again. 70millions voted for that man. For once in me life ah wish ah could get FOX.  Wanted both sides of the issue.

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#13 Nov 08, 2020 11:14 am

Dancer
Active

Re: Maybe the best election outcome of my lifetime

Real Distwalker wrote:

Mitch McConnell and Joe Biden are actually friends. If something legitimate needs done, the will work it out.

In the meantime...

No new taxes.
No packing the court
No socialist bullshit.
No building a stupid wall.
No radicalism from either side.

........................

Sorry    ,,,,   man from Iowa   ..... Drooling over the 50ies and 60ies  are over.

The 'Tea Party and others  (Donald) had they say , mostly over the top. Real Americans are not fooled.

no,no, no ,no
What you are saying like (Red States ..country folk )

* STAY STAGNANT U.S.A

Ignorance ?

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#14 Nov 08, 2020 11:32 am

Dancer
Active

Re: Maybe the best election outcome of my lifetime

houston wrote:

New personality cults are waiting in the wing.
The show must go on.


............

> The show must go on

Called it right houston.

2020

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#15 Nov 08, 2020 11:54 am

Expat
Active

Re: Maybe the best election outcome of my lifetime

Real Distwalker wrote:

Look, it is a continent wide republic.  People in Nebraska and Wyoming don't wish to be ruled over by population centers in New York and California a thousand miles away.  Dozens of self-rule movements you have supported should have taught you that, NH.  People don't want to be ruled by bureaucrats in a distant capital city a thousand miles away.

So we have 50 state governments.   Each state has autonomy to be what they want to be.  Montana is different from Connecticut.  Alaska is different from New Jersey.

I know you think that it is wacky to not just let the 29 million people in California totally overwhelm and swamp the will of the half million people in Wyoming but the American Revolution, the Grenadian independence movement, Brexit and a score of similar situations should have showed you by now that ruling people from afar won't work.  It just won't.

That's why the US has the system it has.  So the people of Utah can do their thing and the people of Massachusetts theirs.

It's not a lame defense and I think that, in your heart of hearts, you get it.

While I understand the perspective of not wanting New York State to regulate Iowa, or Nebraska, and that understandably is why you have local candidates for the Senate, and Congress, for the life of me I do not understand why the top dog in the whole country is not simply elected by head count Nationwide. Screw the electorial colleges etc. never mind the State differences. If you have 150 million elegable voters, then who ever tips the scales gets the job. End of.

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#16 Nov 08, 2020 12:19 pm

Real Distwalker
Active

Re: Maybe the best election outcome of my lifetime

I will give you an extreme example that applies to the states the same way.

Imagine a nation with four states.   They are named StateOne StateTwo StateThree and StateFour.

StateOne has a population of two million.
StateTwo has a population of one million.
Statethree has a population of 100,000
StateFour has a population of 50,000

Anyone running for president would never bother with StateThree or StateFour.  They would never have the slightest impact on the election.  They would be a region ruled from afar. 

If, however, you used an electoral system, they would at least have a little bit of a voice.  Candidates couldn't completely ignore them.

Still, it is proportional.  Iowa has six Electoral votes and California has 55 votes.

I get objections to this system.  Reasonable people can disagree on it.  It isn't hard to understand why it exists, however.

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#17 Nov 08, 2020 3:32 pm

Expat
Active

Re: Maybe the best election outcome of my lifetime

I think I see what you are trying to say, but it isn't 4 States, it's ?50, and you either like they guy/girl up for election or you don't. From a casual observation the campaigners ignored vast swathes of the population going round and round like headless chickens saturating the battle ground states with their attention while the less likely ones to swing were left alone. Which is just another slant on what you just said.

Being governed from afar is taken care of by the upper and lower houses surely, and the local Governors wield power, and representatives for the State who while they may function mostly in the town with the big house they are answerable to their electors back home.

The Pres is the captain of the ship, he may set a course, but the lower ranks make it happen, or have hissy fits every now and then, and lock him up in his cabin with no ability to get things done.

I may be as thick as 2 short planks, but while I see the need for state elections for Senate and the other lot, I do not get it regarding the President.

Let the Candidates get out and present their case to the country as a whole, debate, and have run off's and then.. Last man standing gets to duke it out with the other parties candidate. One man one vote. Winner gets to be Pres.

The actual counting might not be that different, but the total is just the aggregate of all the States, and would be what I think you call the popular vote.

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#18 Nov 08, 2020 4:15 pm

Real Distwalker
Active

Re: Maybe the best election outcome of my lifetime

As I said, you can reasonably disagree with the process, but you should at least understand why it exists.

For the record, California only has 77% of the vote in as of this morning.  The states you are hating on, Pennsylvania, Georgia, etc, have virtually 100 percent in.  Why is no one raising hell about how terrible California is?  Because we already know the outcome.

It gets dicey when it is razor thin margins and the counting has to be very, very precise.

Now imagine that if, rather than recounting Pennsylvania we had to recount the entire nation?   Imagine if we were still waiting for states like CA to keep counting!

It would be a nightmare. 

Not that it matters.  It is baked into the Constitution and there is no way there will ever be a situation in which 3/4 of the states vote to end the electoral system.

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#19 Nov 08, 2020 7:17 pm

WH Man
Active

Re: Maybe the best election outcome of my lifetime

Expat wrote:

I think I see what you are trying to say, but it isn't 4 States, it's ?50, and you either like they guy/girl up for election or you don't. From a casual observation the campaigners ignored vast swathes of the population going round and round like headless chickens saturating the battle ground states with their attention while the less likely ones to swing were left alone. Which is just another slant on what you just said.

Being governed from afar is taken care of by the upper and lower houses surely, and the local Governors wield power, and representatives for the State who while they may function mostly in the town with the big house they are answerable to their electors back home.

The Pres is the captain of the ship, he may set a course, but the lower ranks make it happen, or have hissy fits every now and then, and lock him up in his cabin with no ability to get things done.

I may be as thick as 2 short planks, but while I see the need for state elections for Senate and the other lot, I do not get it regarding the President.

Let the Candidates get out and present their case to the country as a whole, debate, and have run off's and then.. Last man standing gets to duke it out with the other parties candidate. One man one vote. Winner gets to be Pres.

The actual counting might not be that different, but the total is just the aggregate of all the States, and would be what I think you call the popular vote.

ho the President.

Without the electoral college, voters in just 4 states, California (39M), Texas (29M), Florida (21M), New York (20), or add in PA and MI, would  determine who is President without voters from all the other states making any difference.

When you understand the rational for the electoral college (Read the Federalist Papers), it would become evident that it's the best mechanism for having citizen involvement under our Federalism and  Constitutional Republic system.

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#20 Nov 08, 2020 9:10 pm

houston
Active

Re: Maybe the best election outcome of my lifetime

Still don't get, is the system designed to have more populated states have less influence on the rural states?
It seems like each state is self governed with their own laws and leadership, so why have an election for a national leader?
It's as though state elections are combined with a federal election.
51% usually wins a federal election, so why bother if individual states are able to dictate the outcome of a national leader that seems to have no power over the land?
Sorry, it is extremely confusing for outsiders and I'll bet for most Americans themselves.

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