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#1 Oct 29, 2017 4:34 pm

Calypso
Active

Bernard Coard's First Book is Very Important but Ignored

http://www.georgepadmoreinstitute.org/t … sub-normal

I sometimes feel that the black community would do better if we know how to educate minority children in primarily white societies. Mr. Coard is a powerful writer/researcher. We cannot deny the fact that racism do exist. How do we educate children who have had different experiences from the majority? Is standardize testing for them or should they be modified? As a  teacher of African descent in New York, I realize that black students are facing the same problems like those face in England.  Education is not working for them.   Why not ? I don't believe the parents know  how to make it work. I have always asked myself why do the children of teachers do so well? But I know that they have knowledge of pedagogy and know what to do  with their children from birth.  I never use being poor as an excuse for America has many resources. We need to  find a solution and very fast!.  You see parents in England ignored Coard's book and that wasn't good. Crucial changes could have been made had they mobilized themselves and gone on a campaign to seek more answer to improve the lives of their children.

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#2 Oct 29, 2017 4:56 pm

New Historian
Active

Re: Bernard Coard's First Book is Very Important but Ignored

I've collected every Revo book I could find, but I would find it very difficult to put one dollar of royalty into that murdering monster's pocket.

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#3 Oct 29, 2017 5:15 pm

Real Distwalker
Active

Re: Bernard Coard's First Book is Very Important but Ignored

Yeah, I feel the same way.  Maybe I will steal a copy.

It's funny.  I am a quasi-libertarian.  I value freedom above all.  I think that government is a necessary evil and not the key to a better world.  Government is like fire... it is a indispensable servant but, if you lose control of it, a terrible enemy.

That said, I am no friend of the Revo or any movement of that nature.  I am not a joiner.  I don't like cultism.  Even my church is liberal mainstream protestantism.   Evangelicals scare me sometimes. \

I agree with all of you, NH.  Bishop was a sympathetic character and Coard is an evil bastard. 

---

Bernard Coard, if you are reading this, you invited me and mine to invade.  You opened the door and laid out the welcome mat.   You killed the Revo as much as if you put a bullet in its head.  That's on you, asshole.  Every damned day you get up and breathe anew while Bishop, Whiteman, Creft and the others have been dead for 34 years.  A couple dozen men from America are also dead for 34 years.  That's on you.   The people in the Crazy House, the Cubans and the PRA dead for 34 years... that's on you too.

Enjoy your breakfast.  Watch a sunset.  Enjoy the weather.  Every single joy in this life that you experience is stolen.   When I find a place I can steal a copy of your book, I will read it.  It should be good for a bitter laugh.

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#4 Oct 29, 2017 5:55 pm

New Historian
Active

Re: Bernard Coard's First Book is Very Important but Ignored

Real Distwalker wrote:

Yeah, I feel the same way.  Maybe I will steal a copy.

It's funny.  I am a quasi-libertarian.  I value freedom above all.  I think that government is a necessary evil and not the key to a better world.  Government is like fire... it is a indispensable servant but, if you lose control of it, a terrible enemy.

That said, I am no friend of the Revo or any movement of that nature.  I am not a joiner.  I don't like cultism.  Even my church is liberal mainstream protestantism.   Evangelicals scare me sometimes. \

I agree with all of you, NH.  Bishop was a sympathetic character and Coard is an evil bastard. 

---

Bernard Coard, if you are reading this, you invited me and mine to invade.  You opened the door and laid out the welcome mat.   You killed the Revo as much as if you put a bullet in its head.  That's on you, asshole.  Every damned day you get up and breathe anew while Bishop, Whiteman, Creft and the others have been dead for 34 years.  A couple dozen men from America are also dead for 34 years.  That's on you.   The people in the Crazy House, the Cubans and the PRA dead for 34 years... that's on you too.

Enjoy your breakfast.  Watch a sunset.  Enjoy the weather.  Every single joy in this life that you experience is stolen.   When I find a place I can steal a copy of your book, I will read it.  It should be good for a bitter laugh.


Excellently said my friend. You wonder how these people sleep at night, do they ever hear voices?

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#5 Oct 29, 2017 6:06 pm

Calypso
Active

Re: Bernard Coard's First Book is Very Important but Ignored

New Historian wrote:
Real Distwalker wrote:

Yeah, I feel the same way.  Maybe I will steal a copy.

It's funny.  I am a quasi-libertarian.  I value freedom above all.  I think that government is a necessary evil and not the key to a better world.  Government is like fire... it is a indispensable servant but, if you lose control of it, a terrible enemy.

That said, I am no friend of the Revo or any movement of that nature.  I am not a joiner.  I don't like cultism.  Even my church is liberal mainstream protestantism.   Evangelicals scare me sometimes. \

I agree with all of you, NH.  Bishop was a sympathetic character and Coard is an evil bastard. 

---

Bernard Coard, if you are reading this, you invited me and mine to invade.  You opened the door and laid out the welcome mat.   You killed the Revo as much as if you put a bullet in its head.  That's on you, asshole.  Every damned day you get up and breathe anew while Bishop, Whiteman, Creft and the others have been dead for 34 years.  A couple dozen men from America are also dead for 34 years.  That's on you.   The people in the Crazy House, the Cubans and the PRA dead for 34 years... that's on you too.

Enjoy your breakfast.  Watch a sunset.  Enjoy the weather.  Every single joy in this life that you experience is stolen.   When I find a place I can steal a copy of your book, I will read it.  It should be good for a bitter laugh.


Excellently said my friend. You wonder how these people sleep at night, do they ever hear voices?


Mr. Coard should have been an educator not a politician! The book is thoroughly researched and has many insights. Now, I am not a fan of Mr. Coard but his intelligence was not in politics!

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#6 Oct 29, 2017 7:12 pm

Expat
Active

Re: Bernard Coard's First Book is Very Important but Ignored

Calypso wrote:

http://www.georgepadmoreinstitute.org/t … sub-normal

I sometimes feel that the black community would do better if we know how to educate minority children in primarily white societies. Mr. Coard is a powerful writer/researcher. We cannot deny the fact that racism do exist. How do we educate children who have had different experiences from the majority? Is standardize testing for them or should they be modified? As a  teacher of African descent in New York, I realize that black students are facing the same problems like those face in England.  Education is not working for them.   Why not ? I don't believe the parents know  how to make it work. I have always asked myself why do the children of teachers do so well? But I know that they have knowledge of pedagogy and know what to do  with their children from birth.  I never use being poor as an excuse for America has many resources. We need to  find a solution and very fast!.  You see parents in England ignored Coard's book and that wasn't good. Crucial changes could have been made had they mobilized themselves and gone on a campaign to seek more answer to improve the lives of their children.


OK, time for a heated debate.. smile

The American experience is a different one to the UK experience of 50 years ago. The Black Americans have grown up speaking pretty much the same language as their neighbours down the road. In the earlies in England children arriving in a new country, and a new school would be disadvantaged simply because they did not use their mother tongue the same way the locals do.

This is true now. On many many occasions I have said something quite basic and simple to a Grenadian, and they either kinda ignore what I said, or just look very blank until I restructure it closer to the way Grenadians speak. I am able to disseminate what various Caribbean people say... unless using parable speak, or just very badly enunciated without too much trouble. Simply because many years ago I went to the trouble to understand what people were saying.

Most Grenadians grew up in their own little world, and have little need to try to make out what those quaint foreigners are saying, and added to that have this firm belief that what ever they say or do is right, even if the rest of the world does it differently. Example the word Entrepreneur, a very few will say it as per the French origins. The majority, most annoyingly mainly on the radio..spreading bad pronunciation, say Entroppenure. There is no O in that word, but time and time again... from quite supposedly educated people there it is Oppenure. Even Americans can get it right. I bet even RD could do it... smile

Back to the main point.

There were 3 main causes of educational issues with Caribbeans in the UK, firstly that difference in communication not understood by the teachers etc. and then, and tell me I am wrong when a large number of Black people have stated this.... Black boys seem to be extremely hard headed, and more interested in showing how tough they are, than soaking up education. This issue not being limited to the UK or America, but in the Caribbean as well. This is a generalisation, but correct none the less. The 3rd issue historically was the Caribbean family... rather like the working class family in the UK thought once they sent the kid to school it was the schools responsibility to teach, and that the parents only had to make sure they got there. They didn't have to assist the teacher, or help with homework, or even ask questions.

A child regardless of ethnic origins or place of birth will do much better when supported and encouraged by the family unit.

The schools and system took time to learn about the West Indians just as much as the West Indians had to figure out how the system worked.

America inner cities with sink schools etc are another ball game altogether.

Last edited by Expat (Oct 29, 2017 7:15 pm)

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#7 Oct 30, 2017 4:47 am

Calypso
Active

Re: Bernard Coard's First Book is Very Important but Ignored

I am not denying your arguments because I have seen it too. Caribbean parents in America have that attitude also. They really do not do a lot with their children. They expect you do  it for them. They do not realize that education begins at home and not with the school system.  The Caribbean is primarily a working-class region and many of the mothers are uneducated. They usually do not have a man around for two helping out is better than one person working alone. They can be poorly spoken as I have witnessed in the Grenadian, Jamaican and most Guyanese nannies who work with the children I teach.  Thy do have children much earlier than white American women. But England has had a different history. You did have a lot of smart children coming from the island that were misplaced by the English. Many assumed that because they were from the islands they were plain dumb and that was not the fact. Many were brighter than they thought. As a teacher, I distinguished from both. The brightest I've worked with are the ones from Barbados. I have worked with some smart Jamaicans but their parents were professionals in the island. Haitians are in a world of their own. They can be very driven and many people do not know this.  Class matters. Mr. Coard's book should have been taken more seriously but it was not. It offered a solution to our problem.  As for young black males being hard-headed? I am not denying this. They are rough and tough! I have noticed that they love working with their hands, picking up garbage, carpentry, mason work. For some reason they don't like to study. But I have asked myself, why are they not like the black males I grew up with in the Caribbean. They were far more driven.  They also had black men as models who could talk to them and did not fear them. Coard offered that as a possible solution: more black teachers, more black men! I have worked with lots of Caribbean parents and I do not like the attitude. I can tell what their background was like in their homelands and it wasn't much. The children of the teachers are exceptional for they are trained for the Ivy Leagues from a very early age and they do go one to do good things.


https://www.theguardian.com/education/2 … einschools

Last edited by Calypso (Oct 30, 2017 5:30 am)

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#8 Oct 30, 2017 7:01 am

Slice
Active

Re: Bernard Coard's First Book is Very Important but Ignored

New Historian wrote:

I've collected every Revo book I could find, but I would find it very difficult to put one dollar of royalty into that murdering monster's pocket.

LORD HAVE MERCY, ah was about to write something about those monsters call Bernard and Phyllis Coard and then ah see your reply, NH you are right on target.

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#9 Oct 30, 2017 7:08 am

Slice
Active

Re: Bernard Coard's First Book is Very Important but Ignored

Real Distwalker wrote:

Yeah, I feel the same way.  Maybe I will steal a copy.

It's funny.  I am a quasi-libertarian.  I value freedom above all.  I think that government is a necessary evil and not the key to a better world.  Government is like fire... it is a indispensable servant but, if you lose control of it, a terrible enemy.

That said, I am no friend of the Revo or any movement of that nature.  I am not a joiner.  I don't like cultism.  Even my church is liberal mainstream protestantism.   Evangelicals scare me sometimes. \

I agree with all of you, NH.  Bishop was a sympathetic character and Coard is an evil bastard. 

---

Bernard Coard, if you are reading this, you invited me and mine to invade.  You opened the door and laid out the welcome mat.   You killed the Revo as much as if you put a bullet in its head.  That's on you, asshole.  Every damned day you get up and breathe anew while Bishop, Whiteman, Creft and the others have been dead for 34 years.  A couple dozen men from America are also dead for 34 years.  That's on you.   The people in the Crazy House, the Cubans and the PRA dead for 34 years... that's on you too.

Enjoy your breakfast.  Watch a sunset.  Enjoy the weather.  Every single joy in this life that you experience is stolen.   When I find a place I can steal a copy of your book, I will read it.  It should be good for a bitter laugh.

I have no interest in having a copy of that book.  If one was given to me free, I will burn it as soon as possible.  There are no place in this world for Bernard and Phyllis Coard.  Both should be hanged for the crimes they did to the Grenadian people.

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#10 Oct 30, 2017 9:01 am

Slice
Active

Re: Bernard Coard's First Book is Very Important but Ignored

Expat wrote:
Calypso wrote:

http://www.georgepadmoreinstitute.org/t … sub-normal

I sometimes feel that the black community would do better if we know how to educate minority children in primarily white societies. Mr. Coard is a powerful writer/researcher. We cannot deny the fact that racism do exist. How do we educate children who have had different experiences from the majority? Is standardize testing for them or should they be modified? As a  teacher of African descent in New York, I realize that black students are facing the same problems like those face in England.  Education is not working for them.   Why not ? I don't believe the parents know  how to make it work. I have always asked myself why do the children of teachers do so well? But I know that they have knowledge of pedagogy and know what to do  with their children from birth.  I never use being poor as an excuse for America has many resources. We need to  find a solution and very fast!.  You see parents in England ignored Coard's book and that wasn't good. Crucial changes could have been made had they mobilized themselves and gone on a campaign to seek more answer to improve the lives of their children.


OK, time for a heated debate.. smile

The American experience is a different one to the UK experience of 50 years ago. The Black Americans have grown up speaking pretty much the same language as their neighbours down the road. In the earlies in England children arriving in a new country, and a new school would be disadvantaged simply because they did not use their mother tongue the same way the locals do.

This is true now. On many many occasions I have said something quite basic and simple to a Grenadian, and they either kinda ignore what I said, or just look very blank until I restructure it closer to the way Grenadians speak. I am able to disseminate what various Caribbean people say... unless using parable speak, or just very badly enunciated without too much trouble. Simply because many years ago I went to the trouble to understand what people were saying.

Most Grenadians grew up in their own little world, and have little need to try to make out what those quaint foreigners are saying, and added to that have this firm belief that what ever they say or do is right, even if the rest of the world does it differently. Example the word Entrepreneur, a very few will say it as per the French origins. The majority, most annoyingly mainly on the radio..spreading bad pronunciation, say Entroppenure. There is no O in that word, but time and time again... from quite supposedly educated people there it is Oppenure. Even Americans can get it right. I bet even RD could do it... smile

Back to the main point.

There were 3 main causes of educational issues with Caribbeans in the UK, firstly that difference in communication not understood by the teachers etc. and then, and tell me I am wrong when a large number of Black people have stated this.... Black boys seem to be extremely hard headed, and more interested in showing how tough they are, than soaking up education. This issue not being limited to the UK or America, but in the Caribbean as well. This is a generalisation, but correct none the less. The 3rd issue historically was the Caribbean family... rather like the working class family in the UK thought once they sent the kid to school it was the schools responsibility to teach, and that the parents only had to make sure they got there. They didn't have to assist the teacher, or help with homework, or even ask questions.

A child regardless of ethnic origins or place of birth will do much better when supported and encouraged by the family unit.

The schools and system took time to learn about the West Indians just as much as the West Indians had to figure out how the system worked.

America inner cities with sink schools etc are another ball game altogether.

Expat that is bunch to unpack. I agree with most of your points, but I am not willing to blame all on the Caribbean students or people. I readily admit, that there is ah language barrier, not really ah language, but ah accent. It is tough, not only in schools, but in all segments of the foreign society.  First of all we are scared straight, we have no clue about what is going on around us.  As a New comer we see everyone as murders who are willing to rob or kill us.

The American system do not take the time to understand the way we speak, we are immediately cast aside as not very important folks.  As we begin to get acquainted, we quickly realize, that the new systems are not our friends, or we just don't like.  We do not blend in.  We form our own communities.  We do not party with Americans, we belong to nothing American.

Here is the other issue, I do not understand,  in Baltimore it is the rest of the Caribbean united against Jamaicans and Americans.  Baltimore island folks do not do Jamaicans.  Jamaicans, do not do the rest of the Caribbean.

Man you just doh know, how tough it was to get acquainted to the American system.  Doh forget the weather drives us nuts.

I think it is ah bit different in places like Brooklyn and Toronto.

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