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#11 Nov 21, 2017 8:21 pm

Calypso
Active

Re: BLACK GOLD, WHITE BRAINS-- THE QUEST FOR GOLD

Expat wrote:
Vanni wrote:

What a sad sad world! Where it's still believed and presented as OK to exploit where others do not know how to handle or defend themselves. How can such a world be called civilised? How can we expect such a world to have any future?

Watch it crumbling. It may still look like the law of the "stronger" (read bully) is still successful and leading, but, for those who can see, and for those who can't alike, this law is eating itself by the tail right now, and is in an ever faster pace reaching its vital organs: the collapse is on its way. And I do not think that any of us who understand the world under the aspect of caring, are going to shed a tear.

Place for another mentality and the people representing it.

Yes ... we can in a first instance avoid to (strategically) place someone in a situation making him vulnerable - as described above due to lack of intellectual education, for example, or basics like unhealthy or lacking food and water, or other. But should it still be the case:

yes, we can choose to act in a brotherly, supportive way toward those who are vulnerable. After all: we're supposed to be human beings! roll


Total tosh.

It has been survival that has been the engine for advancement from the days of the cave dwellers until now.

It is simply the human version of the Animal kingdom where the fittest survive, and the weakest go to the lion.
Even on a very simple level... Every time a person goes for a job the compete against 1 to 2000 other people. It is ALWAYS survival of the fittest.

I am not saying it is fair, simply that a dream world where we all hug each other would have had us never moving out of those caves.


Humans are the highest form of animals. Our awesome intelligence makes us the most dangerous predators. Someone has to put a stop to us!

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#12 Nov 22, 2017 6:07 am

Vanni
Active

Re: BLACK GOLD, WHITE BRAINS-- THE QUEST FOR GOLD

Calypso wrote:
Expat wrote:

Total tosh.

It has been survival that has been the engine for advancement from the days of the cave dwellers until now.

It is simply the human version of the Animal kingdom where the fittest survive, and the weakest go to the lion.
Even on a very simple level... Every time a person goes for a job the compete against 1 to 2000 other people. It is ALWAYS survival of the fittest.

I am not saying it is fair, simply that a dream world where we all hug each other would have had us never moving out of those caves.


Humans are the highest form of animals. Our awesome intelligence makes us the most dangerous predators. Someone has to put a stop to us!

Expat, lemme continue with me tosh:

obviously you and I have a totally different concept of what is life. I think that the present conditions are temporary. An episode of life, on a sphere within a galaxy, serving the purpose for us to awaken - it is not the absolute universal way of life otherwise, among others on many other spheres in this and many other galaxies, in the whole Universe.

Ever wondered about whether, maybe in a first instance, this raw interaction was not what brought us into those caves? Could there have been a descent from a previously more spiritually aware humanity? A descent with a purpose, but not into what some think is the only way of living.

I think that we are on our way to reach the distinction between what is just an experience and episode, and what is a long term way of functioning worthy and representative of what I call our divine nature - of Life/Love/God Itself in Its more faithful expression.

The dysfunctional interaction, based on violence, is only justified for us to reach the point where, whether we know if it can work or not, we are so desperate, that, from the bottom of our heart and soul, we vow to live in a way where we are in touch and manifest what is the most precious to us.

Expressing our radiance and addressing ourselves to another's radiance.

Once we've reached that point, this life of violence has fulfilled its mission and is spontaneously replaced by a life of harmonious and loving interaction.

Do we, as humans, want to keep enacting and cultivating this - situation after situation, generation after generation? While complaining about the harshness of life, but not able to conceive of another way? In contradiction to what could be our intelligence? As docile little robots in a state of spiritual fog not noticing, nor questioning their programming? But who programmed us? And who keeps it working? Until we can no more! And something from the deepest of us shouts "ENOUGH!" ... and, realistic or not, we hear that voice and live by It.


************


Calypso, agreed.

It looks like many of us, thanks to the obnoxious harshness of some experiences, have reached what I spoke about above: we can no more! Whether we believe it can work or not, whether it corresponds or not to our sense of realism: we want something better!

We are setting the standards, it is mostly us who are making this life a misery to ourselves, to each other and all other forms of life. We can be our own nemesis until we become our own saviours. We can change this all, thanks a combination of our heart and intelligence, intelligence which call superior once we offer it in service to life, once we make the best of this present conditions of living, use them as our motivation, not as a rule, and we finally bring forth our Godspark.

There are ways of interacting with life, which are vitally needed, and fully realistic. Based on cooperation, love and caring. Ways of which I am privileged to be aware, and which are not only functioning, but which are changing life into a wonderful, harmoniously interacting community. Who wouldn't want this?

We just need to find the courage to question, and to conceive of something which resonates with and manifests the divine core within each of us.

Last edited by Vanni (Nov 22, 2017 7:12 am)

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#13 Nov 22, 2017 8:05 am

Expat
Active

Re: BLACK GOLD, WHITE BRAINS-- THE QUEST FOR GOLD

Calypso wrote:
Expat wrote:
Vanni wrote:

What a sad sad world! Where it's still believed and presented as OK to exploit where others do not know how to handle or defend themselves. How can such a world be called civilised? How can we expect such a world to have any future?

Watch it crumbling. It may still look like the law of the "stronger" (read bully) is still successful and leading, but, for those who can see, and for those who can't alike, this law is eating itself by the tail right now, and is in an ever faster pace reaching its vital organs: the collapse is on its way. And I do not think that any of us who understand the world under the aspect of caring, are going to shed a tear.

Place for another mentality and the people representing it.

Yes ... we can in a first instance avoid to (strategically) place someone in a situation making him vulnerable - as described above due to lack of intellectual education, for example, or basics like unhealthy or lacking food and water, or other. But should it still be the case:

yes, we can choose to act in a brotherly, supportive way toward those who are vulnerable. After all: we're supposed to be human beings! roll


Total tosh.

It has been survival that has been the engine for advancement from the days of the cave dwellers until now.

It is simply the human version of the Animal kingdom where the fittest survive, and the weakest go to the lion.
Even on a very simple level... Every time a person goes for a job the compete against 1 to 2000 other people. It is ALWAYS survival of the fittest.

I am not saying it is fair, simply that a dream world where we all hug each other would have had us never moving out of those caves.


Humans are the highest form of animals. Our awesome intelligence makes us the most dangerous predators. Someone has to put a stop to us!


Yep, you are right. I expect it will be one of us... maybe Trump or Kim.... if not them someone else will come along and do the job.

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#14 Nov 22, 2017 8:58 am

Expat
Active

Re: BLACK GOLD, WHITE BRAINS-- THE QUEST FOR GOLD

Vanni wrote:
Calypso wrote:
Expat wrote:

Total tosh.

It has been survival that has been the engine for advancement from the days of the cave dwellers until now.

It is simply the human version of the Animal kingdom where the fittest survive, and the weakest go to the lion.
Even on a very simple level... Every time a person goes for a job the compete against 1 to 2000 other people. It is ALWAYS survival of the fittest.

I am not saying it is fair, simply that a dream world where we all hug each other would have had us never moving out of those caves.


Humans are the highest form of animals. Our awesome intelligence makes us the most dangerous predators. Someone has to put a stop to us!

Expat, lemme continue with me tosh:

obviously you and I have a totally different concept of what is life. I think that the present conditions are temporary. An episode of life, on a sphere within a galaxy, serving the purpose for us to awaken - it is not the absolute universal way of life otherwise, among others on many other spheres in this and many other galaxies, in the whole Universe.

Ever wondered about whether, maybe in a first instance, this raw interaction was not what brought us into those caves? Could there have been a descent from a previously more spiritually aware humanity? A descent with a purpose, but not into what some think is the only way of living.

I think that we are on our way to reach the distinction between what is just an experience and episode, and what is a long term way of functioning worthy and representative of what I call our divine nature - of Life/Love/God Itself in Its more faithful expression.

The dysfunctional interaction, based on violence, is only justified for us to reach the point where, whether we know if it can work or not, we are so desperate, that, from the bottom of our heart and soul, we vow to live in a way where we are in touch and manifest what is the most precious to us.

Expressing our radiance and addressing ourselves to another's radiance.

Once we've reached that point, this life of violence has fulfilled its mission and is spontaneously replaced by a life of harmonious and loving interaction.

Do we, as humans, want to keep enacting and cultivating this - situation after situation, generation after generation? While complaining about the harshness of life, but not able to conceive of another way? In contradiction to what could be our intelligence? As docile little robots in a state of spiritual fog not noticing, nor questioning their programming? But who programmed us? And who keeps it working? Until we can no more! And something from the deepest of us shouts "ENOUGH!" ... and, realistic or not, we hear that voice and live by It.


************


Calypso, agreed.

It looks like many of us, thanks to the obnoxious harshness of some experiences, have reached what I spoke about above: we can no more! Whether we believe it can work or not, whether it corresponds or not to our sense of realism: we want something better!

We are setting the standards, it is mostly us who are making this life a misery to ourselves, to each other and all other forms of life. We can be our own nemesis until we become our own saviours. We can change this all, thanks a combination of our heart and intelligence, intelligence which call superior once we offer it in service to life, once we make the best of this present conditions of living, use them as our motivation, not as a rule, and we finally bring forth our Godspark.

There are ways of interacting with life, which are vitally needed, and fully realistic. Based on cooperation, love and caring. Ways of which I am privileged to be aware, and which are not only functioning, but which are changing life into a wonderful, harmoniously interacting community. Who wouldn't want this?

We just need to find the courage to question, and to conceive of something which resonates with and manifests the divine core within each of us.


Yep, you did continue with your Tosh, and it wasn't even Peter Tosh.

We were in the caves to shelter from harsh weather condition... Ice Age comes to mind, plus those big unfriendly animals. We were not top of the food chain back then. Plus even modern humans would exchange the effects of the elements for the comfort of preexisting shelter.

We have developed functions in our brain to survive. Face recognition, risk awareness, are basic ones. God need is a development which helps us cope with the unknown. We as a species have developed the ability to rationalise haphazard events and actions which seem to form patterns. As way to develop... This is how we learned to make the best from grass species and develop cereals to eat. Our brains find the unexplained difficult to cope with. So in comes God... until as has happened many many times... our knowledge increases and we find a real explanation for what ever the event was.  Solar eclipse isn't down to God being pissed off with us anymore. Now we don't have to sacrifice people to keep him on side.

I really find your sugar coated view of life nauseating. Nowhere do I see more than a few tree huggers being nice to the World. Most simply get by trying not to be crushed under the challenges of modern life. Many actively put themselves way out in front of others needs or wishes. Even Grenada which has to be one of the most God ridden countries in the World. With maybe 85% or more religious devotees of sundry kinds... mostly Christian, has an un-Godly set of people, who are often two faced, lying, crap stirring, gossip spreading, unfaithful to their spouses and partners, Child molesting Wife abusing, Robbing from neighbours set of people. Who go to church every week. Now, many of those actions are not too different from other places. I am not making out that Grenada is any different from societies where Church is less popular. What I am saying is DESPITE being so God orientated they are no better.

And where we might agree is that we could and should be better.

I am far from perfect, but I do try to be better on average than those that love God, and screw their fellow man. I try to do no harm even if I can't do good. I try to do many of the things you would consider laudable. I may have been coached in the good book when I was younger, I may have been an active Church participant... Maybe that set the mould for my attempts at good behaviour. I just don't put God at the helm. As, you already know. I do not believe there is one. Niether some mysterious power. So any hand raising to a super power to me is just BS. My belief. Not a certainty, but it is my belief based on how I have interpreted the information made available to me over the years.

However grump, grizzly and argumentative I may be, I would bet if there were a pearly gates even as a disbeliever I would probably get through those gates easier than some of those that dutifully go to church every Sunday, and forget everything as soon as they leave the Church after service.

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#15 Nov 22, 2017 5:20 pm

Calypso
Active

Re: BLACK GOLD, WHITE BRAINS-- THE QUEST FOR GOLD

Expat and New Historian are out right atheists! That is ok with me for we must be allowed to have our views. I am a believer in The Almighty for man has shown us time and time again that he cannot direct his step. Look at the Earth and the Universe and see how wonderfully made they are. They flow harmoniously without crashing into each other. They must have a maker. They tell me that the person who  created them is more greater than man and has been in existence longer than man. No one can convince me that there is not a supreme maker.

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#16 Nov 22, 2017 5:28 pm

New Historian
Active

Re: BLACK GOLD, WHITE BRAINS-- THE QUEST FOR GOLD

I'm not an atheist; an atheist believes that there is no god. I'm an agnostic: I accept that there are mysteries out there that we have no clue of their real meaning, but I believe in none of god's self-appointed generals on earth. I believe in ONE RULE: Do onto others as you would have them do onto you. Follow that, and whatever heaven is out there should welcome you in with open doors and arms. Not that I believe in that either lol!

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#17 Nov 22, 2017 6:56 pm

Calypso
Active

Re: BLACK GOLD, WHITE BRAINS-- THE QUEST FOR GOLD

New Historian wrote:

I'm not an atheist; an atheist believes that there is no god. I'm an agnostic: I accept that there are mysteries out there that we have no clue of their real meaning, but I believe in none of god's self-appointed generals on earth. I believe in ONE RULE: Do onto others as you would have them do onto you. Follow that, and whatever heaven is out there should welcome you in with open doors and arms. Not that I believe in that either lol!



Well, Mr. doubting Thomas, the proof is all around you, in the Universe and man himself. Just look at the complex structures around you and you'll know that they have to have had a designer who is very knowledgeable.

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#18 Nov 22, 2017 7:11 pm

Expat
Active

Re: BLACK GOLD, WHITE BRAINS-- THE QUEST FOR GOLD

Calypso wrote:
New Historian wrote:

I'm not an atheist; an atheist believes that there is no god. I'm an agnostic: I accept that there are mysteries out there that we have no clue of their real meaning, but I believe in none of god's self-appointed generals on earth. I believe in ONE RULE: Do onto others as you would have them do onto you. Follow that, and whatever heaven is out there should welcome you in with open doors and arms. Not that I believe in that either lol!



Well, Mr. doubting Thomas, the proof is all around you, in the Universe and man himself. Just look at the complex structures around you and you'll know that they have to have had a designer who is very knowledgeable.

Considering the Earth is the product of happenstance, and the Moon is literally a chip off the old block which has had an extremely beneficial effect on our climate and seasons, and that all the creatures and bacteria have grown as a direct result of the specific climate and atmosphere they find themselves, and that Man has only been on this planet for about 20 seconds of a year if the Earth were to measure time in that form. How ever wonderful it may be, it is ALL a bloody miracle, but not one created by a super biological engineer. Its just like a game of billiards you whack the pack, and where they end up is no ones guess. Chaos theory.

Some of the planets in our Solar system are in the wrong place due to sling shot gravity. The same thing could have happened to us, and instead of sitting pretty just over the hill from the Sun, we could have been an orphan planet.... There are plenty of them.  Cast adrift in deep space with no Sun just a dead rock. Where would your clever God have been then?

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#19 Nov 23, 2017 6:35 am

Calypso
Active

Re: BLACK GOLD, WHITE BRAINS-- THE QUEST FOR GOLD

Expat wrote:
Calypso wrote:
New Historian wrote:

I'm not an atheist; an atheist believes that there is no god. I'm an agnostic: I accept that there are mysteries out there that we have no clue of their real meaning, but I believe in none of god's self-appointed generals on earth. I believe in ONE RULE: Do onto others as you would have them do onto you. Follow that, and whatever heaven is out there should welcome you in with open doors and arms. Not that I believe in that either lol!



Well, Mr. doubting Thomas, the proof is all around you, in the Universe and man himself. Just look at the complex structures around you and you'll know that they have to have had a designer who is very knowledgeable.

Considering the Earth is the product of happenstance, and the Moon is literally a chip off the old block which has had an extremely beneficial effect on our climate and seasons, and that all the creatures and bacteria have grown as a direct result of the specific climate and atmosphere they find themselves, and that Man has only been on this planet for about 20 seconds of a year if the Earth were to measure time in that form. How ever wonderful it may be, it is ALL a bloody miracle, but not one created by a super biological engineer. Its just like a game of billiards you whack the pack, and where they end up is no ones guess. Chaos theory.

Some of the planets in our Solar system are in the wrong place due to sling shot gravity. The same thing could have happened to us, and instead of sitting pretty just over the hill from the Sun, we could have been an orphan planet.... There are plenty of them.  Cast adrift in deep space with no Sun just a dead rock. Where would your clever God have been then?



Your stance is well-taken and well-spoken like the true agnostic. But with a drab viewpoint as yours you've cast the world and its woes as not having the hope to rekindle a glory and harmony which will give mankind a high quality of life and true happiness. There are many mysteries that we cannot explain. Did you know that when Columbus thought that the world was flat, the Bible told us that it was round. Did you know that before Alexander the Great came to power, it was prophesied in the Bible? Did you know that global warming was predicted in the Bible? The emergence of diseases and famines and wars?  Did you know that the Bible clearly told us that the Earth was the only planet that mankind could live on? It predicted the information age, etc. etc. etc. Believing in a Supreme Being gives me great comfort. I know that better is yet to me. l

Last edited by Calypso (Nov 23, 2017 6:43 am)

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#20 Nov 23, 2017 8:26 pm

Expat
Active

Re: BLACK GOLD, WHITE BRAINS-- THE QUEST FOR GOLD

Calypso wrote:
Expat wrote:
Calypso wrote:


Well, Mr. doubting Thomas, the proof is all around you, in the Universe and man himself. Just look at the complex structures around you and you'll know that they have to have had a designer who is very knowledgeable.

Considering the Earth is the product of happenstance, and the Moon is literally a chip off the old block which has had an extremely beneficial effect on our climate and seasons, and that all the creatures and bacteria have grown as a direct result of the specific climate and atmosphere they find themselves, and that Man has only been on this planet for about 20 seconds of a year if the Earth were to measure time in that form. How ever wonderful it may be, it is ALL a bloody miracle, but not one created by a super biological engineer. Its just like a game of billiards you whack the pack, and where they end up is no ones guess. Chaos theory.

Some of the planets in our Solar system are in the wrong place due to sling shot gravity. The same thing could have happened to us, and instead of sitting pretty just over the hill from the Sun, we could have been an orphan planet.... There are plenty of them.  Cast adrift in deep space with no Sun just a dead rock. Where would your clever God have been then?



Your stance is well-taken and well-spoken like the true agnostic. But with a drab viewpoint as yours you've cast the world and its woes as not having the hope to rekindle a glory and harmony which will give mankind a high quality of life and true happiness. There are many mysteries that we cannot explain. Did you know that when Columbus thought that the world was flat, the Bible told us that it was round. Did you know that before Alexander the Great came to power, it was prophesied in the Bible? Did you know that global warming was predicted in the Bible? The emergence of diseases and famines and wars?  Did you know that the Bible clearly told us that the Earth was the only planet that mankind could live on? It predicted the information age, etc. etc. etc. Believing in a Supreme Being gives me great comfort. I know that better is yet to me. l


Every man is entitled to their belief structure, and if it works for you fine. Note, NH is the Agnostic, I am the Aithiest. It is not the same thing.

However I think the old wives tale about early sailors thinking the World was flat is just that. Even a non learned person can look out to see from a high vantage point and see the curveature of the Earth.

There is a fad about this was predicted by this or that group or book... We can and many do find these predictions by putting words into the mouths of writers having 20-20 vision to utelise. Exactly what I said earlier about Mankind having a need to create understandable patterns. Deseases and Wars are hardly hard to predict are they...Hmm. There has hardly been a period of peace since Christe's time till now.

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