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#11 Dec 27, 2017 4:45 pm

gripe
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Re: Gender-Neutral God?: Swedish Churches' Controversial Decision

Some serious preaching is required given the assault on the core Christian, Biblical, concepts that you so admirably defend. I spoke with a female co-worker, a devout Christian, who was quite impressed with your comments.

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#12 Dec 27, 2017 4:48 pm

Dancer
Active

Re: Gender-Neutral God?: Swedish Churches' Controversial Decision

Calypso wrote:
gripe wrote:

Calypso, your statement -- ". . . God . . . existence is not a belief; it is direct." -- is as profound as one can get. Preach on! (I hope that there is still seating in the pews for me and others. I don't plan to leave early either.)

I am not preaching on. God is not a belief. He is real.


....
" well Calypso ... what do you know ? "

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#13 Dec 29, 2017 6:56 pm

Expat
Active

Re: Gender-Neutral God?: Swedish Churches' Controversial Decision

Calypso wrote:
gripe wrote:

Listen to the arguments on the above topic, here:   https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.pbs.or … perception

The Bible describes God as the "father." so he is masculine and not feminine. I am no feminist. I believe in hierarchy.   Men are the head of their families.  They cannot be two heads in one family. I have no difficulty following along.  If a man is a very strong leader, I'll follow him. I only interject if I don't believe in decisions made.

The Bible was written by a Misogynistic set of people, of course God is a man by their perception. Even recently I have attended a Jewish Student meeting house on several Sabbat's, and the women got to chat while the men went off to pray. Know your place.

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#14 Dec 29, 2017 9:40 pm

Vanni
Active

Re: Gender-Neutral God?: Swedish Churches' Controversial Decision

So, it doesn't sound suspicious or uncomfortable to anyone that a gender has been chosen upon another?

God? A gender anyway? Creation ... is it female or male? Life ... is it female or male?

Come on, people, we need to grow up beyond that gender-race and other stuffs.

Let us remember the origins of religion and the ensuing description of God: from humans. Humans of a patriarchal society, where males wanted power over females. So obviously, God had to be masculine. Guess God's gender in the matriarchal societies? Female. Go figure!

Considering that God is a principle, a principle best unites both polarities. Actually God/Creator/Life is before - at the origin of any manifestation, as polarity among others. Or beyond it.

Something we, here, in the manifested world, cannot grasp. And so, whether ladies or gentlemen, we happily come to defend God's hairy gonads. While some, in a provocative mood, come and oppose a female God with ample bosom. What a recipe for endless bickering.

Only, there is a beyond. Beyond what we think we know from our utterly limited human perception.

So, tell me: is universal love feminine or masculine?

smile

Last edited by Vanni (Dec 29, 2017 10:03 pm)

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#15 Dec 30, 2017 12:27 am

Expat
Active

Re: Gender-Neutral God?: Swedish Churches' Controversial Decision

I was with you up until Universal love came onto the stage.

The Universe as most of us know is so vast and churning with interstellar gas and dust clouds there would not seem to be any scope for love in that mix.

We cannot even manage pan world love, let alone pan universe. I recognise your desire for it to exist, I would surely welcome it, but we are bombarded by toxic acts daily, from the acts of thugs through to totalitarian power crushing whole populations. The World could be a lovely place were it devoid of animals. Humans included. I cite animals as despite some looking cuddly, all kill or damage what surrounds them.

God is love so they say, yet every creature tears and gnaws on some lesser species... unless it is a good old herbivore. Such continuous pain in death is hard to reconcile with a sentient God that loves all creatures.

Ants ripping moths to pieces, lions bringing down Zebras, Hawks grasping field mice in their tallons, fish devouring smaller fish etc etc I find it hard to see beauty or love in those images.

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#16 Dec 30, 2017 6:22 am

Calypso
Active

Re: Gender-Neutral God?: Swedish Churches' Controversial Decision

Vanni wrote:

So, it doesn't sound suspicious or uncomfortable to anyone that a gender has been chosen upon another?

God? A gender anyway? Creation ... is it female or male? Life ... is it female or male?

Come on, people, we need to grow up beyond that gender-race and other stuffs.

Let us remember the origins of religion and the ensuing description of God: from humans. Humans of a patriarchal society, where males wanted power over females. So obviously, God had to be masculine. Guess God's gender in the matriarchal societies? Female. Go figure!

Considering that God is a principle, a principle best unites both polarities. Actually God/Creator/Life is before - at the origin of any manifestation, as polarity among others. Or beyond it.

Something we, here, in the manifested world, cannot grasp. And so, whether ladies or gentlemen, we happily come to defend God's hairy gonads. While some, in a provocative mood, come and oppose a female God with ample bosom. What a recipe for endless bickering.

Only, there is a beyond. Beyond what we think we know from our utterly limited human perception.

So, tell me: is universal love feminine or masculine?

smile



:
“‘Our Father in heaven,
hallowed be your name,''''''''


Vanni, so what if the universal love is masculine and not feminine.  Our creator did put hierarchy into place to let harmony take place. As I said, it's trouble-making people who usurp his authority and take it out of context.

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#17 Dec 30, 2017 3:10 pm

Vanni
Active

Re: Gender-Neutral God?: Swedish Churches' Controversial Decision

Calypso, has God written the Bible? Has God created religion? Has God dictated the prayers you are quoting? I could go on with the list.

Yet, some have decreed all kinds of things, which did not come from the Source of All. It may suit some humans.

My perception is not one of any gender over the other for God-Love-Life, but if at all, one of a harmony of polarities. The attempt to put a preference in polarity is, in my opinion, a typically human attempt. One which speaks of competition. Of domination. All concepts which have nothing to do with the Divine, and all to do with the human.

I am aware that there is a state before polarity. And, equally to the perfect harmony of both polarities, to me this is implicit when evoking God.

We can be so, so ignorant, and so, so gullible.

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#18 Dec 30, 2017 3:29 pm

Vanni
Active

Re: Gender-Neutral God?: Swedish Churches' Controversial Decision

Yes Expat, a cruelty of every moment.

There are other worlds where reality is primarily of this universal love. Here on Earth, there is so, so much suffering, violence, traumas and others. What if they had actually a purpose? To this cruelty, this violence, this horror of every moment for too many: the only response which can make any sense to me, which can justify humanity's existence, is universal love.

It is because I have gone through extremes of suffering that I ended up questioning and searching. And yes, I found the only response worth my life - universal love.

And, once again here my understanding of this reality, which we call "life" but which is only a limited aspect of it:

This reality is not by a very unfortunate chance, nor a total mess-up. Each challenge is meant to bring us to our innermost Source. The Divine within oneSelf. For us to find the motivation to act and respond from there. From then on, this reality has fulfilled its purpose, and is no more necessary for us to dwell in it as we know it presently and throughout historical times.

Once we have succeeded in responding in universal love, we have mastered the challenge and are done with this specific reality and life. And either this reality and life change and offers experiences of the level we have mastered, or, if it does not change, we leave it, because we do not need such challenges any more, and we go to another reality, of a harmony and beauty which we can only find sometimes in our own soul and in our dreams and longing, and of which there are plenty throughout the Universe.

You see, we do not understand what this life is about. We do not get it that it's not a definitive state. We do not get it that it's just a space for a specific purpose which is all about our response, that it is just a set-up to lead us to our innermost Source, and to motivate us once and for all to respond from there. A meeting we have given to ourselves.

At least, this is how, the more I go, the more I understand my life.

Last edited by Vanni (Dec 30, 2017 8:46 pm)

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#19 Dec 30, 2017 6:00 pm

Expat
Active

Re: Gender-Neutral God?: Swedish Churches' Controversial Decision

All that is lovely and inspiring if you throw away all balance.

While you are rationalizing YOUR issues, and I do recall what some of them were, Hundreds of children are being torn apart by bombs who will not get a chance to "think" about why they are being martyred.

Hundreds of thousands daily will be being abused both sexually and mentally around the World. Children bartered by parents into prostitution to pay for the rest of the family to cope.

There is no sickly sweet explanation for babes not even out of the uterus being riddled with bullet holes by some drug crazed zealot.

If there was a God, he is a sadistic, uncaring, perverted son of a bitch. No ifs no butts no maybe's.

How about a little history?  The chosen people massacring whole towns that stood in their way to their promised land according to the book THEY wrote (remember VICTORS write the history)... and these were given the go ahead by their God (how convenient).. The one who is so forgiving, but destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah to teach em a lesson. Yeah, a loving God in truth. It was all for their own good. Yet now by the machinations of the Church now if you are contrite ALL your sins are forgiven.

Thankfully there isn't one so I don't have to despise him.

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#20 Dec 30, 2017 6:15 pm

Real Distwalker
Active

Re: Gender-Neutral God?: Swedish Churches' Controversial Decision

Expat wrote:

If there was a God, he is a sadistic, uncaring, perverted son of a bitch. No ifs no butts no maybe's.

Wow. In sixteen years of Facebook, that is about the stupidest thing I have ever read.  It ranks right up there with the Mercator Projection map is racist.

How can your thinking be so shallow as to believe that your puny pea brain is the final arbiter of what is metaphysically good and bad? 

I know that for some reason you like to be purposefully obtuse, but I can't believe that even you are doltish enough to believe that you see all and know how better run the universe. 

I really don't care if you have faith or belief in anything.  But your juvenile atheism and adolescent 'logic' in these matters makes me feel embarrassed for you.   

I mean, their are non-believers who are fun to debate and discuss with.  You, on the other hand, set up a silly religious straw man in which nobody anywhere believes, knock it over and then act smug as if you accomplished something.  It is ridiculous.

You don't have to believe.  Hell, I doubt you are mentally capable of belief.  I don't really believe in Calvinist reprobates but you make me wonder if there isn't something to it.  No, your problem is that you use the kind of arguments a ten year old would use and think your banal non-arguments are profound.  They aren't.  They are pathetic.

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