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#61 Jan 06, 2018 9:37 pm

New Historian
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Re: Gender-Neutral God?: Swedish Churches' Controversial Decision

Expat is like Arsene Wenger, doesn't know when to stop bitching! Digging forever deeper holes.

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#62 Jan 06, 2018 10:45 pm

houston
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Re: Gender-Neutral God?: Swedish Churches' Controversial Decision

Not so sure about that. Expat has always expressed his thoughts without the pressure of external bull sheite. I admire the man's honesty.
We all say shyte that is disturbing to others but on second thought it might not be all that acceptable and therefore difficult to retract.
Having natural thoughts is normal. Zipping the mouth can be a difficult task.

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#63 Jan 06, 2018 11:18 pm

houston
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Re: Gender-Neutral God?: Swedish Churches' Controversial Decision

Natural thoughts (we all that survive together, we all that help each other, we all that share and live together. We all that don't judge one another)

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#64 Jan 07, 2018 9:21 am

Vanni
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Re: Gender-Neutral God?: Swedish Churches' Controversial Decision

Expat wrote:
Vanni wrote:

I am not trying here to convince you of anything else than what you want or can think of. As for me, I am happily feeling outraged - and think we all ought to be - at the idea that I am a soulless bag of various pockets, juices and hard protruding bits, head included, lead by a merry few random convolutions and some chemistry, and once they stop existing, I am no more.

What for you is peace of mind I call it resignation. And resignation can last only as long.

It's a bit challenging to debate, as Don Quijote is standing in the wings ready to pike me with his lance.

However, what life is about is what we make it, that really is nothing to do with the God Head. So whether we fill our surroundings with love, or are beastly is our choice or nature. And a bit like you interpreting my words to your own point of view, I would do the same for resignation. I do not call, or think of my full stop when the eyes close as resignation, although maybe acceptance IS resignation?

I am accepting - and understanding - that my present perception of Life is limited and that Life is so much more vast and wonderful than my present perception and understanding of it. It gives me a feeling of excitement and anticipation. It opens doors.

Should I resign to my present understanding of life, it may bring me a temporary illusion of peace - which will be broken once a traumatic (and welcome) event occurs - and will surely make me feel squashed by something too big for me to fight, and not much to be looking forward to. It closes doors.

The idea of annihilation is an option - at a certain point I prayed for it, so I could not even remember what I went through. However, I came to understand that annihilation cannot occur.

Which brings some new implications, challenges and responsibilities. Implications, challenges and responsibilities which those who believe in annihilation may not want to consider.

In my case forgiveness, and as forgiveness is still not the full grasp and is arrogant, humble gratitude to those with whom I've learned to open my heart and live beyond annihilation - including gratitude to myself for having found my way through harsh drilling. Opening my heart where my only wish would have been to close it once and for all. But I felt that bitterness would have killed me. It would have! I rather chose to be loyal to myself and to trust and follow my heart's/spirit's encouragement, which I would surely not have chosen by myself.

So, though still traumatised: how could I not be thankful for such experiences and to the people involved, myself included?

So what is Life's (apparent random, but maybe not so much) cruelty? Is it a just a curse or have we somehow chosen the challenge - and chance so we can develop to absolute our divine ability of alchemist to turn curse into blessing? And once we succeed in doing so, do we ever need to repeat such experiences? Not that I know.

This life is one of the most terrifying, gruesome and challenging passages in hell, but we are all here because we came to master it. And then we we can access another, more rewarding, more serene level of Life and reality. They exist: if there is anything you can trust me about, it's that smile Because I know. But trusting is not enough. You are on your own way to getting to know by yourself, and in this sense, I appreciate where you are standing, Expat. This is your own way, which leads to an opening, in its and your own time.

One of the major steps in awareness, as I understand it, as I started to sense beyond my human, physical and intellectual perception of Life and without being able to define it clearly enough, made me realise "I know that I don't know". This key opens up, as it knows that there is a reality beyond our perception.

Knowing that we don't know - not because we've been told so by some authority, but because some experiences gave us a shy glimpse of something to explore beyond our intellectual understanding and our physical senses, makes us no more condemn ourselves, while we still have to accept the frustration of our limitation, the wisdom to accept to take it one step at a time. To value ourselves for exactly who and where we are right here right now. Because genuine progress can happen only through love, which, in this process, becomes the ever more powerful leading principle of our life.

Last edited by Vanni (Jan 07, 2018 9:22 am)

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#65 Jan 07, 2018 12:18 pm

Real Distwalker
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Re: Gender-Neutral God?: Swedish Churches' Controversial Decision

H. L. Mencken wrote:

"We must respect the other fellow's religion, but only in the sense and to the extent that we respect his theory that his wife is beautiful and his children smart."

Expat wrote:

"Your wife is ugly and your children are stupid."

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#66 Jan 09, 2018 12:01 am

Expat
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Re: Gender-Neutral God?: Swedish Churches' Controversial Decision

You don't have to create statements, I made a very clear one.

As we all know, except you, who need to create your own debate. I do not believe in a Mystic God. I am not the least bit indifferent, I absolutely and categorically do not believe. Now, I definitely challenge others. Just as you have challenged me in the past, not letting me rest on my laurels saying I have no faith. You have insisted my faith is not having one. Unless you are hanging on to that belief by your finger tips being challenged should not be a problem. I debate regularly with a very nice chap who is a pastor, and does some very good work within the community. We bounce ideas back and forth, just as Vanni and I have. You on the other hand seem very brittle.

I have suggested a Chemical reaction/fusion event of some kind beyond my understanding might be defined by the name God, if one wanted to. But I do not believe there is any sentient portion to that process. Ergo communicating with it, or taking messages from it is not going to happen. My belief.

What I said I stand by, and to try as you do with anyone you cant better to be derogatory ala Trump, does nothing but diminish you.

You got  angry, you lashed out.... say what...who cares, you were given opportunities to remove the verbiage, but your stubbornness, or as some might say pig headedness got in the way of doing something intelligent. Remembering it is an open forum that any age could read. Which is the only reason why I made the suggestion. You are old enough to know better in that respect.

Had you stopped talking like the donkey that Don Quijote rode, and thought a bit, you could have voiced your concern, either as a PM. You do know how to contact me, or you could have expressed your chagrin in a more subdued fashion, and I might have meliorated your dismay.

As it is I just curled up on the floor in a fit of giggles with your "Bite me" remark.

You will note your rubbish has got nowhere, while Vanni and I have circled the flames like moths doing a dance. I am not going to change her mind, as she is getting what she needs out of what she is doing/thinking. Just as I might have said was happening to me 47 years ago. For some people these ideas/fads/concepts are just stages, and then for others, it fits with where they are, or their mindset, and they will stick with it for ever.

All our experiences are deeply personal. I have been through the stages of "searching". Both in "normal" religions, and others more on the edge. I have meditated, I have created localised atmospheric changes that completely unconnected people have noticed, I have been to places so far removed from normal life you start to question your sanity and certainly every bit as ethereal as what Vanni seems to be immersing herself in. Mine ended with a confirmation that my gut feeling and my feeble brain (according to you) were in synchronicity. As every year goes by I find more information that hardens that opinion. I wish it were the other way around. It's just like I would think most Gays would prefer not to be out of sync with the rest of the World, it is so much easier to conform.

What is shouting at me much louder than your tantrum cussing is the blindingly obvious fact that you have no answer yourself as to why so many completely innocent children, and adults too should suffer so much. So without repeating it, I stand by my original statement. As I certainly cannot see a plan that justifies so much misery.

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#67 Jan 09, 2018 12:17 am

Expat
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Re: Gender-Neutral God?: Swedish Churches' Controversial Decision

houston wrote:

Not so sure about that. Expat has always expressed his thoughts without the pressure of external bull sheite. I admire the man's honesty.
We all say shyte that is disturbing to others but on second thought it might not be all that acceptable and therefore difficult to retract.
Having natural thoughts is normal. Zipping the mouth can be a difficult task.

Danka.

As I said to RD, had he voiced his hurt in a less antagonistic fashion, I could have easily retracted what I wrote. For me it would have been a lie, but it would have settled the dust. Unfortunately RD believes in perpetuating the America Stereotype, and hasn't figured out yet that if you stop banging your head the pain stops.

Plus, I am 100% Taurean, push, and right or wrong I will instinctively push back. Even when I know it is the wrong thing to do. Not that I believe in Horoscopes either, but it does fit....  smile

Just like a bull I can be lead very easily with that ring through the nose. But don't push.

Tell me do this do that, and I will spend days going out of my way to make it not happen. Ask me, and it's done before you finish the sentence. After being together for nearly 40 years the Wife still hasn't figured that one out.

Last edited by Expat (Jan 09, 2018 12:24 am)

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#68 Jan 09, 2018 12:27 am

Expat
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Re: Gender-Neutral God?: Swedish Churches' Controversial Decision

New Historian wrote:

Expat is like Arsene Wenger, doesn't know when to stop bitching! Digging forever deeper holes.


Holes no one seems to have a long enough ladder to clime out.

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